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Mr. Baize - are you suggesting that once a person becomes a veteran of war, they should get a free pass regarding subsequent, unrelated behaviors?

tea_time - 13 November 2008 04:27 PM

Mr. Baize - are you suggesting that once a person becomes a veteran of war, they should get a free pass regarding subsequent, unrelated behaviors?

I didn’t get that from his letter at all.  Why did you?

LivinUpriver - 13 November 2008 09:48 PM

tea_time - 13 November 2008 04:27 PM

Mr. Baize - are you suggesting that once a person becomes a veteran of war, they should get a free pass regarding subsequent, unrelated behaviors?

I didn’t get that from his letter at all.  Why did you?

Because Mr. Baize said “humiliating toward a gentleman who honorably served and suffered for his country.”

Okay....but what about the events after that?  Free pass?

tea_time - 13 November 2008 10:24 PM

Because Mr. Baize said “humiliating toward a gentleman who honorably served and suffered for his country.”

Okay....but what about the events after that?  Free pass?

I guess you just can’t let it go…

But here’s an idea: how about you tell us in this forum all about the “events” of your life - right and wrong - and let us hash it over, deciding whether or not you have handled the wrong and bad stuff appropriately according to our own personal yardsticks and guidelines and morality scales. 

Sound fair?

LivinUpriver - 13 November 2008 11:01 PM

tea_time - 13 November 2008 10:24 PM

Because Mr. Baize said “humiliating toward a gentleman who honorably served and suffered for his country.”

Okay....but what about the events after that?  Free pass?

I guess you just can’t let it go…

But here’s an idea: how about you tell us in this forum all about the “events” of your life - right and wrong - and let us hash it over, deciding whether or not you have handled the wrong and bad stuff appropriately according to our own personal yardsticks and guidelines and morality scales. 

Sound fair?

Do you understand where the initial statement to Mr. Blaize stems from now after quoting him again?

let us hash it over, deciding whether or not you have handled the wrong and bad stuff appropriately according to our own personal yardsticks and guidelines and morality scales.

Is that statement directed to Mr. Blaize and the “morality scales” he has applied?

Stop whining, Mr. Blaize - and you too Livin - McCain’s loss was by huge numbers, get over it.

This, as I stated, has nothing to do with politics but everything to do with respect.  It is not about a ‘free pass’.  In your world I would still except others to treat you with respect even though you seem to loose that concept for others.  Last I knew I was not ‘whining’.  Perhaps you need to get out of your own ivory tower and start looking at other’s as well.  Perhaps your own need for showing respect to people who have earned it.

I just noticed, this is tea-time.  I actually would not expect you to have any concept of respect for our veterans.  You are probably the type who simply would vote Democrat regardless who it was.  I truly do not expect you to comprehend anything to do with respect for our veterans or anything other than your own sense of self righteous demise for those who have served in the armed forces.

desimo - 14 November 2008 03:41 AM

This, as I stated, has nothing to do with politics but everything to do with respect.  It is not about a ‘free pass’.  In your world I would still except others to treat you with respect even though you seem to loose that concept for others.  Last I knew I was not ‘whining’.  Perhaps you need to get out of your own ivory tower and start looking at other’s as well.  Perhaps your own need for showing respect to people who have earned it.

Respect the veteran for his service and give him a free pass on everything else?  Mr. McCain has received unending respect for his service - its the stuff after that that’s gotten in his way.

tea_time - 14 November 2008 02:40 AM

Do you understand where the initial statement to Mr. Blaize stems from now after quoting him again?

Yeah, I see what you were trying to say - I still don’t see where he was saying anything of the sort.  I do see that you were building yet another strawman, however, because you apparently can’t let go of certain things in Mr. McCain’s past. Baize was talking about the respect that is due American war veterans because he happens to work with veterans, that’s all.

Why turn it into a fight?

tea_time - 14 November 2008 02:40 AM

Is that statement directed to Mr. Blaize and the “morality scales” he has applied?

It was very obviously directed at you.  Why would I direct my question to Baize when it was you to whom I was responding?

tea_time - 14 November 2008 02:40 AM

Stop whining, Mr. Blaize - and you too Livin - McCain’s loss was by huge numbers, get over it.

The only one here that I see whining is you, TT.  Your guy won, the election’s over, yet you are still trying to beat McCain’s past into the ground.  Since Obama won, maybe now we need to start bringing up his cocaine usage less than 10 years ago (when he was a state senator) or how it was that he was able to get into position to win his 1996 Illinois senate race or the fact that if he weren’t going to be the 44th POTUS he probably wouldn’t be able to get the security clearance he will receive automatically?

Or would you rather talk about your own past foibles and make them fodder for discussion here as I offered yesterday?

The media reported what was out there, Obama campaigned on issues, Mcain on fear of Obama. Mcain wasn’t forced to go on the view or any other show, thats how they get their message out, in the media, they all put a little spin on it. Serving our country is honorable, but that doesn’t give him the free pass, this was the election for president, serving in the military is not a requirement for the job or should be a factor in how the media reports on him. Every one of the media outlets respects Mcains service, it was his message, policies and how he handles things that that got the bad press. This is a historic time for the USA and the rest of the world, hopefully we get back to the USA that has the respect of the world again and hopefully bring our troops home safely.

And where do you get the cocaine use as a Senator information? He wrote a book about his use as a teen and in college, that came out 11 years ago, are confusing that?

SandiL - 14 November 2008 01:21 PM

And where do you get the cocaine use as a Senator information? He wrote a book about his use as a teen and in college, that came out 11 years ago, are confusing that?

Nope.

SandiL - 14 November 2008 01:12 PM

The media reported what was out there, Obama campaigned on issues, Mcain on fear of Obama.

<sigh> Obama campaigned on fear of McCain and Bush - his whole premise of “Change We Need” was based on a “change or else we perish” message.  It was subtle and in some ways subliminal (remember the “Yes, we can” chant?), and it was sending a very negative message with a sweet-sugar coating.  The fact is, Obama was no saint in his campaigning - he said some horrible things and played quite dirty at times.  The anti-McCain media, however, chose to show otherwise.  McCain campaigned on more than fear of Obama.  The Obama-biased media, however, chose to essentially ignore it and hammer home the negative aspects more prominently.  Post-election, some of the media is coming clean on that bias.

SandiL - 14 November 2008 01:12 PM

Mcain wasn’t forced to go on the view or any other show, thats how they get their message out, in the media, they all put a little spin on it.

You call being openly hostile to a guest sitting in front of you “spin”?

SandiL - 14 November 2008 01:12 PM

Serving our country is honorable, but that doesn’t give him the free pass,

The writer of the letter to the SVH didn’t say anything about a “free pass”, McCain didn’t say anything about a “free pass”.  The only person building the “free-pass” strawman is Tea Time and you fell for it.

SandiL - 14 November 2008 01:12 PM

this was the election for president, serving in the military is not a requirement for the job or should be a factor in how the media reports on him. Every one of the media outlets respects Mcains service

Oh, really?  If that’s the case, why did some “media outlets” have the unmitigated gall to side with one of McCain’s former captors and challenege whether or not he was really treated as harshly and barbarically as other POW’s at the Hanoi Hilton?

SandiL - 14 November 2008 01:12 PM

it was his message, policies and how he handles things that that got the bad press.

Practically everything McCain and Palin did got “bad press”.  Did alleging that Palin’s baby was not actually her baby have anything to do with McCain’s “message, policies, and how he handles things”?  How about the Washington Post’s admission that they were biased toward Obama - did that have anything to do with McCain’s “message, policies, and how he handles things”?  And what about MSNBC’s Chris Matthews?  He has stated that he thought it was his “job” to help the Obama presidency over the next four years…

Get where I’m going with this?

SandiL - 14 November 2008 01:12 PM

This is a historic time for the USA and the rest of the world, hopefully we get back to the USA that has the respect of the world again and hopefully bring our troops home safely.

Oh, it’s “historic”, all right.  Just not the way all of the wide-eyed dreamers and sentamentalists out there holding hands and singing Kumbaya want to believe it is.

So where did the cocaine use as a State Senator allegation come from? Fox news?

SandiL - 14 November 2008 02:58 PM

So where did the cocaine use as a State Senator allegation come from? Fox news?

No, not Fox News.

Actually, it’s all over the web.  But, *that* was not the crux of my point.  TT has been bringing up garbage about McCain ad nauseum, as if any of it had any bearing on anything.  Most of it, IMO, stemmed from personal bias against McCain.  The majority of it ignored pertinent, current facts and opted instead for Enquirer-style hyperbole.

The Obama story of cocaine usage and homosexual encounters while a state senator is also Enquirer-style hyperbole, hence, my suggestion that we start a conversation on that level since TT appears to be more comfortable there.

TT, you mention past issues.  You seem to forget that your man has even more recent skeletons than McCain.  As Obama sat under Wright for 20+ years but never truly knew what he stood for; worked closely with Ayers to the point where he was able to write a commentary on his book but never truly knew he was a domestic terrorist (or at least did not care); was able to work closely with Rizko but never knew (or at least cared) that he was a crook; was associate with Farrakhan for years and did now know (or at least care) that he was synonymous with the Black Muslim and Black Panther movements (as a kid in Chicago I remember how the Black Panthers would beat or shoot kids in school simply because they were white); either Obama was naïve, apathetic, or is too stupid to be President.  While many Supreme Court nominees were flayed because they smoked pot in college, Obama gets away with admitting to use cocaine and even blaming his usage on society claiming he was confused as a child.  The media also gave his a free ride regarding his money.  He raised 3 X’s the normal amount in less time.  Anyone who knows the Chicago political machines knows that an amount like that, that quick, does not come clean.  Where did it come from and what was promised in order to get it.

Likewise, I notice that you never truly discuss the issue only attack the person.  I would like to know why you are so hateful to the service person.  Was Hanoi Jane your idol when she called the Vietnam servicemen murderers?  Are you a military brat who hates daddy because he was gone so much?  Are you a jilted lover whose sweetheart figured it would be safer to face the enemy so he went off to war?  Why do you see the service persons as something to be dismantled instead of someone who saved your ungrateful butt from having to learn German or Japanese as your primary language?  Did you not get a chance to spit on enough people coming back from Vietnam or did you miss your opportunity to spit on a returning Iraq soldier?  Or do you just think that as an armchair politician you know better than the men and women who are sleeping under the stars hoping that nothing crawls over to them to keep warm and bites them during the night while you curl up in your bed not giving any thought to anything beyond yourself?

If you think I am being personal, you are right.  A number of us take the respect that we feel needs to be given to the veteran, and the honor which needs to be paid to the fallen, very seriously and very personally.  We are tired of your attacks.  Leave the servicemen alone.  We know you do not like McCain.  But, he paid a price for his county you cannot even think about.  Maybe he would not have been a good President, but people like you are not worthy to tie his shoes!

[quote author="desimo"

A number of us take the respect that we feel needs to be given to the veteran, and the honor which needs to be paid to the fallen, very seriously and very personally. 

Standing ovation for desimo.  I have 7 generations of family members that have stood up for our country. My kids are grown military “brats” wouldn’t change it for the world. GREAT respect for all military! and yes I still put my hand over my heart when I see an American flag!

All of our veterans deserve respect for the sacrifices they have made.  Honestly I don’t know what happended on the view, as I don’t give that program the time of day..plus I work when it’s on.  I only agree with TT in that being a veteran does not give anyone a free pass to act as they wish in society.  I do not agree with TT in her efforts to continuously bring up bogous accusations because someone does not represent her “ideals”.  Honestly I believe that if Obama had been a Republican with the same campaign as he just ran on..TT would have voted against him and railed against him.  Yes..it goes both ways, but Democrats seem to have an extra bit of hatred when it comes to politics.  Must be their tolerance training.

watch dog - 14 November 2008 07:07 PM

All of our veterans deserve respect for the sacrifices they have made.  Honestly I don’t know what happended on the view, as I don’t give that program the time of day..plus I work when it’s on.  I only agree with TT in that being a veteran does not give anyone a free pass to act as they wish in society.  I do not agree with TT in her efforts to continuously bring up bogous accusations because someone does not represent her “ideals”.  Honestly I believe that if Obama had been a Republican with the same campaign as he just ran on..TT would have voted against him and railed against him.  Yes..it goes both ways, but Democrats seem to have an extra bit of hatred when it comes to politics.  Must be their tolerance training.

LOL! Well put, watch dog!

Mcain was honorable in his concession speech and has from all I have read getting behind our President. Obama won, time for us to move forward, if the guy who lost is getting behind our President, everyone else should. Mcains policies and demeaner cost him the election, not his service to the country or the media.