Today’s letters include:
Bear-hunting clod a real winner
Gregoire nails immigrant issue
Let’s improve retail atmosphere
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RE: Gregoir nails immigrant issue.  If you happen to be a criminal in this country illegally you’re going to love this one.  If you’re an American citizen who gets arrested we punish you with prison time, if you’re an illegal we send you home.  Prisons are expensive and we shouldn’t be punishing anyone but American citizens.

Then in 2 weeks the illegals are right back here to do it all over again..

Those who are convicted would be deported to their home country. I’d assume convicted crimminals sent to their home country would be subject to the law there. They have their own prisons and in many cases, they arn’t quite as comfortable as ours. Why should we pay to incarcerate them?

turtledove - 05 January 2009 03:45 PM

Those who are convicted would be deported to their home country. I’d assume convicted crimminals sent to their home country would be subject to the law there. They have their own prisons and in many cases, they arn’t quite as comfortable as ours. Why should we pay to incarcerate them?

The problem with this argument is that there is no justice.  If rather than face the death penalty for murder an illegal aliens maximum punishment is deportation whats to stop him?  Foreign laws do not apply to crimes in the U.S. So they would not be imprisoned in their home country.  The person was in the country illegally so whats to stop him from returning and killing all over again?
It does make perfect sense to deport them after they have served their sentence.

I think we should make them serve their sentence, then deport them. What is the point of arresting them, filing charges, and then deporting them? Waste of time and money. Maybe if they actually had a consequence for their actions besides sending them home they would think twice about coming back here illegally and participating in illegal activities!

Native Valleygirl - 05 January 2009 07:39 PM

I think we should make them serve their sentence, then deport them. What is the point of arresting them, filing charges, and then deporting them? Waste of time and money. Maybe if they actually had a consequence for their actions besides sending them home they would think twice about coming back here illegally and participating in illegal activities!

While serving their sentences, the conditions which guarantee a bed to sleep in, a roof overhead, bathroom facilities, and meals throughout the day, are often better than conditions back home - which is why they are here in the first place.

The deportation proposal is modeled after a program in Arizona that has saved the state more than $18.5 million since 2005. Only drug and property crimes would be targeted, not capital offenses. Just deport them, there are way to many people in prisions anyway.

We need harder prison time for criminals, make them work and earn their own keep instead of watching television. As for the illegal aliens they also need to do hard time for their illegal behavior. They can do work in on-site factories producing goods 8 hours a day like other people do earning a paycheck that they turn over to the prison system for their rent instead of gouging the American people. Prison simply isn’t a deterrent for criminals. Since the prisons are privately owned the ones that are really making out are the ones making money off of them.

Jo Roark - 06 January 2009 03:20 AM

We need harder prison time for criminals, make them work and earn their own keep instead of watching television. As for the illegal aliens they also need to do hard time for their illegal behavior. They can do work in on-site factories producing goods 8 hours a day like other people do earning a paycheck that they turn over to the prison system for their rent instead of gouging the American people. Prison simply isn’t a deterrent for criminals. Since the prisons are privately owned the ones that are really making out are the ones making money off of them.

What exactly would “hard time” look like to an illegal immigrant?  I don’t imagine their time coming into and surviving in a foreign country is a cake-walk, and they are not opposed to hard work.  I’m sure most would prefer a hard work day over a day of simply passing the time.  If illegal immigrants are put to work in factory jobs, I’m sure many of our increasingly unemployed citizens may have a problem with that, especially considering corporations may prefer paying very little for an incarcerated illegal immigrant (whose room/board/medical/dental are paid for by the state) to do the job over paying a citizen a living wage and benefits.

We are not going to make an illegal immigrant into a legal immigrant by sending him to prison, no matter who is running the prison. The illegal immigrant is going to be deported, that’s a given. Immigrants who are here on a visa also face revocation of their visa and deportation if convicted of a crime. Just being charged with a crime will interfer with a visa renewal. It’s gotten pretty tough to come here legally at all. Given the economic conditions we find ourselves today, it is prudent that the govenor find ways to reduce costs quickly.By allowing illegal immigrants to be deported rather than serve out their term at the expense of the U.S.taxpayer she is doing just that. You can take your libertarian ideas of prision reform to Olympia and see how far you get, but right now we have to cut costs quickly.

Seems to me the best and cheapest way to deal with people in this country illegally is to keep them out in the first place.  But, no one really wants to take that idea seriously.

retnfo - 06 January 2009 02:51 PM

Seems to me the best and cheapest way to deal with people in this country illegally is to keep them out in the first place.  But, no one really wants to take that idea seriously.

Cause and effect, and we do indeed seem to spend our energies more on the effect than the cause.

The U.S., Canada and Mexican governments are trying to create the North American Union which would mean open borders, we would all be one nation which would be the worst possible thing for Americans.

Jo Roark - 07 January 2009 06:02 AM

The U.S., Canada and Mexican governments are trying to create the North American Union which would mean open borders, we would all be one nation which would be the worst possible thing for Americans.

Wow. No kidding.

Jo Roark - 07 January 2009 06:02 AM

The U.S., Canada and Mexican governments are trying to create the North American Union which would mean open borders, we would all be one nation which would be the worst possible thing for Americans.

Now you’re delving into conspiracy theory territory, Jo.

The NAU is a theoretical and speculative idea that has been discussed at a scholarly (and conspiratory theory) level only.  It is not true that all three governments are actively pursuing this union, as your post suggests.  All three nations state officially that there is no such union plans in the works. 

And, FYI, the NAU is *not* a new idea - it’s been floating around since the mid-1800s.

The NAU is not new but along with the NAU a NAFTA Superhighway is being planned to link all 3 countries. The NAFTA Superhighway is now being called the trans-texas corridor. If this is just a conspiracy theory then why are there so many people fighting it?

http://www.keyetv.com/news/local/story/Lawmakers-Weigh-In-On-Trans-Texas-Corridor/D6tQWOqm8Eublo5Q9dQG8g.cspx

http://www.lewrockwell.com/paul/paul349.html

http://www.nauwaroom.org/index.php/news/3-superhighway/46-loudobbsexposesthetruth

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BwrQhiuX35E

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H65f3q_Lm9U

http://www.nauwarroom.com/index.php/history

http://www.nauwaroom.org/index.php/eminent-domain

Jo Roark - 09 January 2009 09:03 PM

The NAU is not new but along with the NAU a NAFTA Superhighway is being planned to link all 3 countries. The NAFTA Superhighway is now being called the trans-texas corridor. If this is just a conspiracy theory then why are there so many people fighting it?

So, you’re claiming that the “trans-texas corridor” is just a euphemism for a “NAU/NAFTA Superhighway”?  Okaaayyy…

Jo Roark - 09 January 2009 09:03 PM

http://www.keyetv.com/news/local/story/Lawmakers-Weigh-In-On-Trans-Texas-Corridor/D6tQWOqm8Eublo5Q9dQG8g.cspx

This article is about Texans opposed to more spending on improving roads through Texas to the Mexican border.  So?  We should have good roads except for those that lead to foreign countries?

Jo Roark - 09 January 2009 09:03 PM

http://www.lewrockwell.com/paul/paul349.html

Llewellyn Rockwell is a Libertarian, extreme right-wingnut.

Jo Roark - 09 January 2009 09:03 PM

http://www.nauwaroom.org/index.php/news/3-superhighway/46-loudobbsexposesthetruth

http://www.nauwarroom.com/index.php/history

http://www.nauwaroom.org/index.php/eminent-domain

The “NAU War Room” is run by the Conservative Caucus - an ultra-right wing lobbying group that’s opposed to civil rights for certain groups of people.  The CC also purposes to shove the extreme right-wing agenda down the throats of Americans.  As a card-carrying member of the ACLU, I find such a group highly objectionable.

Jo Roark - 09 January 2009 09:03 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BwrQhiuX35E

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H65f3q_Lm9U

I don’t buy into anything that utilizes YouTube to promote an agenda.  Sorry Jo, but your weblinks are less than compelling and not exactly convincing endorsements for your argument.

I have never believed in labeling people, I don’t think its right.  Lew Rockwell didn’t write the article, the senator of Texas for the last 16 years wrote the article. Besides, what is wrong with being a libertarian? Liberty is what our forefathers fought for and now it has become a bad thing? I don’t think there is anything wrong with restoring or holding on to our individual rights or believing in the free will of the people. It’s certainly better than what we have now.
Republicans and/or Democrats have been at the helm for many years and look where it’s gotten us and the Libertarians had nothing to do with that, the Democrats and the Republicans made a mess of this country all on their own. So who would be the real wingnuts?

Jo Roark - 10 January 2009 10:36 PM

I have never believed in labeling people, I don’t think its right.  Lew Rockwell didn’t write the article, the senator of Texas for the last 16 years wrote the article. Besides, what is wrong with being a libertarian? Liberty is what our forefathers fought for and now it has become a bad thing? I don’t think there is anything wrong with restoring or holding on to our individual rights or believing in the free will of the people. It’s certainly better than what we have now.
Republicans and/or Democrats have been at the helm for many years and look where it’s gotten us and the Libertarians had nothing to do with that, the Democrats and the Republicans made a mess of this country all on their own. So who would be the real wingnuts?

Republicans have given us enough liberty to allow us all to be completly screwed by greedy, ethically bankrupt, war mongering, near sighted, opportunists. Libertarianism is dead in this country because corporations have more rights than individuals or the U.S. government. Individuals can’t economically survive without relying on slave labor. Libertarianism is a nice theroretical idea, but individual rights don’t mean anything if you don’t have a fundamental underlying value system guiding you as to what to do with those rights once you get them. Guess what, we don’t. Why do your posts always take us way off topic?

Turtledove,
Usually conversations and debates take a lot of twists and turns, it seems to be the nature of things when you are trying to prove points, I think its what makes life interesting.
I don’t believe that Liberty is dead yet although it seems to be heading that direction. We still have our rights but most people don’t know how to exercise them. Our rights are in the constitution and it is what guides us. If the NAU goes through then our rights will be gone and the constitution will be mo more. We will have a huge freeway that will connect us with Mexico and Canada so I guess there will be no more illegals from Mexico. There are a lot of people fighting this so I don’t think they will get away with it.