MOUNT VERNON — John Chaffee is not who Mount Vernon’s new aggressive begging ordinance is after.

Under the ordinance passed Wednesday, panhandling within 15 feet of an ATM, a building entrance, pay phone, self-serve car wash or fuel pump, public transit stop or a parked car with occupants entering or exiting would be presumed aggressive and would be a misdemeanor punishable by 90 days in jail, a $1,000 fine or both.

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Good story.
Very through.
Have to say people like Chaffee deserve no sympathy.
What is needed instead is for people to give these panhandlers maps and phone numbers to social service locations to get the best welfare… a J-O-B.  Thank you.

The majority of the panhandlers hanging around on College Way and Riverside are professional, long-term beggars who make more than $100 a DAY. You heard me...more than $100 A DAY!

They hold up phony signs while they drink Starbuck coffee and smoke expensive Camel cigarettes. They work in shifts and make a darn good living lying to anyone passing by.

Those few who may legitimately be in tough straights are vastly outnumbered by healthy, able-bodied men and women who are doing very well begging fist-fulls of dollars from naive passers-by.

Lee_USA - 22 August 2008 05:56 AM

The majority of the panhandlers hanging around on College Way and Riverside are professional, long-term beggars who make more than $100 a DAY. You heard me...more than $100 A DAY!

They hold up phony signs while they drink Starbuck coffee and smoke expensive Camel cigarettes. They work in shifts and make a darn good living lying to anyone passing by.

And you know this for a fact because...?

And you know this for a fact because...?

Because studies have been done. This isn’t a new social phenomenon.

And because one of the local beggars is the 19 year old son of a co-worker of my friend. She said he was bragging to his mom that he had made over $100 in less than 2 hours with his “Please help, homeless, living in a tent, God Bless you” sign as he stood at the corner of College Way and Riverside.

I wonder why you, livingupriver, doubt these folks aren’t enjoying making plenty of spending money while lying to John and Jane Q. Public?. It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to know that an easy liar can fool quite a few people and make more per day than someone with a regular job. If you care to drive by College Way - during regular business hours - you’ll see the same beggars there day after day after day. And you’ll see their Starbucks coffee and see them smoking Camels and playing tag-team with other beggars.

Lee_USA - 22 August 2008 05:56 AM

The majority of the panhandlers hanging around on College Way and Riverside are professional, long-term beggars who make more than $100 a DAY. You heard me...more than $100 A DAY!

They hold up phony signs while they drink Starbuck coffee and smoke expensive Camel cigarettes. They work in shifts and make a darn good living lying to anyone passing by.

Those few who may legitimately be in tough straights are vastly outnumbered by healthy, able-bodied men and women who are doing very well begging fist-fulls of dollars from naive passers-by.

Granted I can testify to some of the points in this story. My mom had a similar encounter with a panhandler in Downtown Seattle who wasn’t poor at all, but just so happend to be a former friend of hers who was renting a wheel chair from a guy to try this very same hustle claiming to be disabled and in need of money because he was homeless. Now granted there are many people out there who are just trying to make a quick dollar by trying to hustle people who have sympathy. But there are also quite a few people who don’t know where to turn and are in dire straights. But I agree with a previous poster, that it would be great if more was done to steer these people towards social services rehabilitation options, rather then just dropping a fine or putting someone in jail, to be released and in some cases turn right back to what it is they ultimately know to get by. It’s sad because something as simple as having sympathy and trying to offer a couple dollars to someone in need out of the goodness of your heart can end up you handing your money to someone who’s doing little more then attempting to hustle you in the first place.

Lee_USA - 22 August 2008 03:12 PM

And you know this for a fact because...?

Because studies have been done. This isn’t a new social phenomenon.

And because one of the local beggars is the 19 year old son of a co-worker of my friend. She said he was bragging to his mom that he had made over $100 in less than 2 hours with his “Please help, homeless, living in a tent, God Bless you” sign as he stood at the corner of College Way and Riverside.

I wonder why you, livingupriver, doubt these folks aren’t enjoying making plenty of spending money while lying to John and Jane Q. Public?. It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to know that an easy liar can fool quite a few people and make more per day than someone with a regular job. If you care to drive by College Way - during regular business hours - you’ll see the same beggars there day after day after day. And you’ll see their Starbucks coffee and see them smoking Camels and playing tag-team with other beggars.

Did I say I doubted that panhandlers are capable of making alot of money holding a sign asking for it?  Nope, didn’t say that.  I asked how you know, for a fact, that the panhandlers in this area are “professional” and without a doubt earn “$100 a day”.

FYI:  I lived in Phoenix, AZ, the fifth largest city in the country, for many years.  Because of the good winter weather, Phoenix has a very large homeless population.  Often, when I would see someone that held a sign saying “will work for food” I would go to a grocery store and bring them a bag of groceries, rather than give them money.  I also started packing lunch bags with bottled water, fruit, and packaged crackers to give median panhandlers during inner-city rush hour.  I know what panhandling is and what it looks like and that there are those who make it their full-time job.  I also know that there are phonies out there just as there are those who are genuinely in need.  Personally, I would rather err on the side of doing something, rather than smugly driving by, dismissing them as fakes and frauds.

Aren’t you assuming much just because you know for certain of *one* person who did it as a scam?  Aren’t you essentially lumping *all* of them into one group labeled “phony”?  A panhandler could very well be standing there with a Starbuck’s cup because someone bought it for him/her.  They could be drinking water from that Starbuck’s cup they found discarded by the side of the road.  Those Camel cigarettes they are smoking could have been given to them by a passer-by.  The fact is, unless you know the panhandler *personally*, you can’t possibly know their back-story or their current story. 

Without having personal knowledge of them, everything else is just assumption, conjecture and passing smug judgement.

dj-defkawn - 22 August 2008 03:20 PM

Lee_USA - 22 August 2008 05:56 AM

The majority of the panhandlers hanging around on College Way and Riverside are professional, long-term beggars who make more than $100 a DAY. You heard me...more than $100 A DAY!

They hold up phony signs while they drink Starbuck coffee and smoke expensive Camel cigarettes. They work in shifts and make a darn good living lying to anyone passing by.

Those few who may legitimately be in tough straights are vastly outnumbered by healthy, able-bodied men and women who are doing very well begging fist-fulls of dollars from naive passers-by.

Granted I can testify to some of the points in this story. My mom had a similar encounter with a panhandler in Downtown Seattle who wasn’t poor at all, but just so happend to be a former friend of hers who was renting a wheel chair from a guy to try this very same hustle claiming to be disabled and in need of money because he was homeless. Now granted there are many people out there who are just trying to make a quick dollar by trying to hustle people who have sympathy. But there are also quite a few people who don’t know where to turn and are in dire straights. But I agree with a previous poster, that it would be great if more was done to steer these people towards social services rehabilitation options, rather then just dropping a fine or putting someone in jail, to be released and in some cases turn right back to what it is they ultimately know to get by. It’s sad because something as simple as having sympathy and trying to offer a couple dollars to someone in need out of the goodness of your heart can end up you handing your money to someone who’s doing little more then attempting to hustle you in the first place.

I totally agree with both of you.  I stopped giving directly to the panhandlers and started donating to the agencies that help them.

Lee_USA - 22 August 2008 03:12 PM

And you know this for a fact because...?

Because studies have been done. This isn’t a new social phenomenon.

And because one of the local beggars is the 19 year old son of a co-worker of my friend. She said he was bragging to his mom that he had made over $100 in less than 2 hours with his “Please help, homeless, living in a tent, God Bless you” sign as he stood at the corner of College Way and Riverside.

I wonder why you, livingupriver, doubt these folks aren’t enjoying making plenty of spending money while lying to John and Jane Q. Public?. It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to know that an easy liar can fool quite a few people and make more per day than someone with a regular job. If you care to drive by College Way - during regular business hours - you’ll see the same beggars there day after day after day. And you’ll see their Starbucks coffee and see them smoking Camels and playing tag-team with other beggars.

Lee_USA,

Now I don’t doubt that you’re co-worker’s son had the nerve to prey on the sympathy of passers-by in Mt.Vernon by pretending he was homeless. But I have to agree with LivinUpRiver on this one. When lumping an entire group of people in a statement it’s important to site factual information. Because basing a statement like saying that the majority of pan handlers make 100 dollars a day, on the words of your co-worker’s 19 year old son who in his crooked hustle claimed he made $100 in two hours, is a bit of a smug statement towards those people who actual need help and are in dire straights.

I mean honestly though if the worst thing someone who actually is in need does is buy a pack of cigarettes or drink a Starbucks coffee after spending the night on a park bench or underneath a freeway overpass, I can’t nock that.

Seriously though, if you happen to pass by a pan handler in need, drop them a phone number to a good social services program that will help get them on their feet, or even the nearest homeless shelter, DSHS in Mt.Vernon is one for example.

“ I asked how you know, for a fact, that the panhandlers in this area are “professional” and without a doubt earn “$100 a day”. “

You could go ask them if you really want to know. But then, they do lie for a living.

You could also hang around South 2nd Street at quitting time and see a number of the perrenial ones going up to their rooms at the apartment buildings they stay at.

Or, you could take a good look on Monday and see the same guy on Friday - or the next week - who claimed he was in dire need of spare change to get a bus ticket to go see his dying mom in Portland.

Like I said...it doesn’t take a rocket scientist…

Lee_USA - 22 August 2008 05:21 PM

“ I asked how you know, for a fact, that the panhandlers in this area are “professional” and without a doubt earn “$100 a day”. “

You could go ask them if you really want to know. But then, they do lie for a living.

You could also hang around South 2nd Street at quitting time and see a number of the perrenial ones going up to their rooms at the apartment buildings they stay at.

Or, you could take a good look on Monday and see the same guy on Friday - or the next week - who claimed he was in dire need of spare change to get a bus ticket to go see his dying mom in Portland.

Like I said...it doesn’t take a rocket scientist…

Lee no one in this forum is denying that there are people just simply looking to hustle you out there. I think what everyone is saying is don’t lump into the same category the people who are actually in need, with the jacka**es who are looking to prey on the sympathy of average everyday people.

But seriously, “I need spare change to get a bus ticket to see my dying mother in Portland?” Haha that’s just as bad as those email scams offering to give you a cut of millions of dollars, because an uncle you never knew you had in Uganda died, and he was the wealthy king of the break away republic of Copper-Bottom lol, it’s really sad.

Lee_USA - 22 August 2008 05:21 PM

“ I asked how you know, for a fact, that the panhandlers in this area are “professional” and without a doubt earn “$100 a day”. “

You could go ask them if you really want to know. But then, they do lie for a living.

You could also hang around South 2nd Street at quitting time and see a number of the perrenial ones going up to their rooms at the apartment buildings they stay at.

Or, you could take a good look on Monday and see the same guy on Friday - or the next week - who claimed he was in dire need of spare change to get a bus ticket to go see his dying mom in Portland.

Like I said...it doesn’t take a rocket scientist…

Nope, it doesn’t take a rocket scientist, just someone with a closed, judgemental mind to make sweeping generalizations against a group of people known only for standing by the road asking for food, water, shelter and a little cash.  In this so-called “greatest nation on earth”, too many of this nations citizens are one or two paychecks away from poverty and homelessness.  And that number includes regular, hard-working, flag-flying citizens and rocket scientists alike.

Is it really so awful to give someone a buck or two or a cup of coffee or a bottle of water or a pack of cigarettes or some groceries *even* if you don’t know whether they are legitimately in need?  Think of it this way:  if you do something to help someone who says they are in need, you have done a mitzvah (good deed), and both end up the better for it.  If you do something for someone who claims to be in need and they have taken advantage, then they will have the weight of their dishonesty on themselves, but you have *still* performed a mitzvah.  Either way, it’s a win for you emotionally, mentally and spiritually.

I’d rather err on the side of generosity than to err on the side of selfishness borne out of judgmentalism.  Given enough time, selfishness and distrust just makes one angry and ugly inside.

Hey “Up”:  Don’t you ever quit?  Every discussion you’re involved in loses focus of the original topic while you beat to death some minor point until everybody’s brain is bleeding and half of us are considering suicide.

GIVE IT A REST !!

Irtnog - 22 August 2008 05:51 PM

Hey “Up”:  Don’t you ever quit?  Every discussion you’re involved in loses focus of the original topic while you beat to death some minor point until everybody’s brain is bleeding and half of us are considering suicide.

GIVE IT A REST !!

No one’s forcing you to read my posts, Irtnog.  It’s really quite simple.: if you’re unable to keep yourself from reading what I write, use the feature called “Ignore” and you won’t have to worry about getting so stressed over my opinions.

But, if you think I’m going to stop posting just because you have a need to control others and make a lame attempts at insulting me…

...you’ve got another think comin’.

Naturally, you’re missing my point.  You hijack every topic, turning it into your lame arguments over minutia.  It gets to the point where interesting topics must be abandoned by the reader because your non-stop tripe makes it impossible to extract the valid points from the meaningless alphabet soup.

But then, that’s just my “controlling” opinion; whatever the hell you mean by that.

Irtnog - 22 August 2008 06:13 PM

Naturally, you’re missing my point.  You hijack every topic, turning it into your lame arguments over minutia.  It gets to the point where interesting topics must be abandoned by the reader because your non-stop tripe makes it impossible to extract the valid points from the meaningless alphabet soup.

But then, that’s just my “controlling” opinion; whatever the hell you mean by that.

If you want to know what I mean by “controlling”, you could look at the number of times you have called others in this forum names, or told them they shouldn’t post what they do, or have told them they shouldn’t post as much as they do, or that they shouldn’t reply to another poster, etc., etc., ad nauseum, and on and on.  You have a need to control others in this forum just as you did in the previous SVH forum - that’s obvious by how you interact with others.

As far as your accusation that I “hijack every topic” goes...how is responding to posters and expressing my opinions alongside the other opinions hijacking a topic, Irtnog?  I mean, really...if you’re referring to the fact that I’m opinionated - well, yes, I am opinionated.  So what?  You are too.  So is Lee_USA.  So is Manerva.  So are most people who are attracted to posting regularily in an online forum.  The difference is that I don’t find it necessary to needlessly attack others because of their opinions, but you seem to.  I don’t find it necessary to call others names, but you seem to.  I don’t find it necessary to try and shut others up that I don’t like, you seem to.  I don’t find it necessary to goad others into an online argument, but you seem to.  And I don’t find it necessary to label others “liberals” or “conservatives” in order to feel superior, but you most definitely seem to.

So, the long and the short of your accusation is this:  allow me and others to be who we are and and you can expect the same treatment in return.  Launch a needless, unprovoked attack and you should expect the same treatment in return. 

The truth is, if one has the stomach and thick-skin it takes to post in a forum such as this one, it can be a mind challenging and fun debating experience.  IMO, it’s the name-callers and control freaks trying to regulate what people say and think and scare the weaker ones away that make posting here unenjoyable.

I think what everyone is saying is don’t lump into the same category the people who are actually in need, with the jacka**es who are looking to prey on the sympathy of average everyday people.

What everyone is missing then is the fact that the MAJORITY of the folks you see out on the steet corners aren’t guys down on their luck.  They are perrenial street con-artists who are making a good living off lying to the sort of folks who like to think they are doing a good deed by passing them a couple of bucks.

Those who are smuggly sitting up river far from the street corners where this little scenerio plays out everyday.  With the same faces week in and week out.  And the same signs passed to the other players at shift changes.

The same ones with closed, judgemental minds who don’t like the facts being stated to them. So attack the messanger.

The group of people known for standing by the road asking for food, water, shelter and a little cash are making a good living...a very good living.  Just the facts, ma’am.

Lee_USA - 22 August 2008 06:52 PM

I think what everyone is saying is don’t lump into the same category the people who are actually in need, with the jacka**es who are looking to prey on the sympathy of average everyday people.

What everyone is missing then is the fact that the MAJORITY of the folks you see out on the steet corners aren’t guys down on their luck.  They are perrenial street con-artists who are making a good living off lying to the sort of folks who like to think they are doing a good deed by passing them a couple of bucks.

Those who are smuggly sitting up river far from the street corners where this little scenerio plays out everyday.  With the same faces week in and week out.  And the same signs passed to the other players at shift changes.

The same ones with closed, judgemental minds who don’t like the facts being stated to them. So attack the messanger.

The group of people known for standing by the road asking for food, water, shelter and a little cash are making a good living...a very good living.  Just the facts, ma’am.

Unless you’ve got statistics to back up your “facts”, Lee, you’re guessing.  Unless you’ve done a survey of every panhandler with a sign in Skagit County, you’re guessing.  Unless you know the life story and/or have experienced the life of every panhandler who’s asked for what you so obviously don’t want to give them, you have no right to judge them.  Someone much more perfect and wise than any of us once said of accusers like you: “He who is without sin among you, let him be the first to throw a stone...”

[quote author="LivinUpriver" date="1219459288

...if you’re referring to the fact that I’m opinionated - well, yes, I am opinionated.

Calling you “opinionated” is like calling Hitler a bully.

I do not or intend to supply any facts..so please don’t ask.  I do however know first hand that 8 - 10 of the panhandlers in the Mount Vernon area are young boys and girls involved with the ICP gang.  They are homeless by choices they have made and instead of finding jobs or seeking help they have found (and brag) that it is easy to make a living begging from others.  I would not be surprised if these are not the aggressive panhandlers the law is trying to deter.  I observed one whom I knew from profession contacts run between cars on Riverside then flip off the drivers that had the nerve to yell at him.  Then he proceeded to hold up his sign asking for money.  Since it is my money they are asking for I reserve the right to clump all pan handlers into one large group when deciding to hold onto my hard earned money and donating elsewhere.

Irtnog - 22 August 2008 07:06 PM

[quote author="LivinUpriver" date="1219459288]

...if you’re referring to the fact that I’m opinionated - well, yes, I am opinionated.

Calling you “opinionated” is like calling Hitler a bully.

Yes, well...thanks for so aptly proving my point re: your forum behaviors and attitudes, Itrnog.