by Marta Murvosh
MOUNT VERNON — Twenty-eight of 40 dogs confiscated from local breeder Kris Finch will be returned to her, a judge ruled Tuesday.
Judge David Svaren said the search warrant that he issued was too broad and should not have included the barn where most of the dogs were kept.
On Jan. 21, the Skagit County Sheriff’s Office seized all but one of Finch’s dogs and two ponies from her Big Lake property after searching her house and barn.
It’s been almost seven weeks since officials took Finch’s dogs, and no criminal charges have been filed against her.
Svaren said in court that while it appears there was neglect, he should not have allowed authorities into the barn because the warrant was based on information gathered months ago. Therefore, the 28 dogs from the barn will be returned.
The remaining 12 dogs were in the house, including three kept crated in the laundry room for up to 18 hours a day and had no place to go to the bathroom. Two ponies were said to be emaciated. Those animals will not be returned at this time.
Svaren’s ruling found that testimony during Finch’s petition to have her animals returned did not show enough evidence that the conditions for those animals would improve.
No date has been set to return the 28 dogs.
The situation involving Finch’s animals is not connected to the case involving the seizure of more than 400 dogs from another kennel in the area. In that case, owners Marjorie and Richard Sundberg are facing animal cruelty charges, and they forfeited possession of those dogs.
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Comments:
by: Skagitonian5705 on March 10, 2009 - 09:54 AM | Comment # 1195
Unbelieveable!!! Kris Finch you should be ashamed of yourself. How dare you. I hope this is a wake up call for you. You are no different than the Sunbergs and their puppy mill. I think they ought to lock you in a cage like you have done to these animals. You should be banned from ever owning an animal.
------------------------------by: momma Jan on March 10, 2009 - 10:11 AM | Comment # 1196
This is a travisty!!!!! so on a murder case if the police find a body in the house and bodies in the back barn,the victiums in the back barn “DON’T COUNT?”!!!!! this was a search warrent for the property --the PROOF was that these poor dogs were abused, neglected, and ignored --I was in court!! I heard the testimony from police, vets(2 vets) ,and animal behaviorist---NOW the dogs will suffer because a judge is splitting hairs --an address is an address ---- I’m asking the IRS to look into the past tax statements filled by this “person” !!! --will Kris Finch be held responsible for the cost of care the returning dogs needed?? THIS IS A DISGRACE FOR SKAGIT COUNTY!!!!!!!!!
------------------------------by: NSkagit on March 10, 2009 - 01:45 PM | Comment # 1204
I agree 100%. People like this must be short of a full deck. How can they do something like that and think nothing of it? Those poor animals.
------------------------------by: Jo Roark on March 10, 2009 - 01:52 PM | Comment # 1205
This is shameful, no doubt those poor dogs will probably be put back in the barn again to suffer out the rest of their lives. Its disgraceful for the county, the warrant should have been for the house, pasture and all of the outbuildings, leave no stone unturned. I’m disgusted.
------------------------------by: protectanimals on March 10, 2009 - 03:25 PM | Comment # 1210
So many things seem so wrong about this.
If you get probable cause enough to obtain a warrant in the first place by some obviously visible neglect (the pony and mini horse were observable from the road), and also have probable cause to inspect (and find) that the dogs in the crates in the kitchen and utility room were in conditions bad enough to remove from the proerty, why then is it too far a reach to assume that all other animals on the property should be checked to ensure their safety?
How does PetSmart espouse employing a breeder, without kennel license, wtih this many dogs and in these deplorable conditions? And have other staff recomending Kris Finch as a great breeder of Aussies? (Yes, it really has happened!)
How is it the judge can honestly find that grade 3 and 4 periodontal disease (exposed roots, rotting teeth, horrid oral infections that turn systemic) which is preventable! does not constitute neglect? Because vets testified that too few people do dental care to dogs as recommended? So if everyone does it (or fails to do it), it’s ok?
If those dogs are returned to the hell they were freed from, wouldn’t it stand to reason that this will cause even more significant (and likely irreparable) damage (mentally if not also physically) to these animals?
Understanding that “animals” are just that - “animals” - and are not protected under the constitution, legislature has seen cause enough to establish laws to protect animals from cruelty and neglect by humans. Why not teeth to really make the laws work?
Giving Kris what she gave her “pets” that she “cares for and about” as a “reputable breeder” is too good for her.
------------------------------by: lovinskagit on March 10, 2009 - 05:36 PM | Comment # 1216
hmmm
------------------------------by: lovinskagit on March 10, 2009 - 05:39 PM | Comment # 1217
Those poor poor dogs...let off on a technicality. Sadly your right they prob will be put back in the barn. She also made the Channel 7 news tonight as well. She still doesn’t have a kennel license. Maybe she will be charged for the 12 dogs and 2 horses. Wonder if they can charge her now that the petition is done. Hmmm
------------------------------by: wgymmom on March 10, 2009 - 10:52 PM | Comment # 1224
Please don’t blame the judges in this and the other case! I know that their hands are tied as to what the law will let them do. If this makes you mad call your government in Olympia and complain! We need tougher laws in this state against animal abuse!!!!
Now this is not to say I think that the Sundburgs should be getting any of the dogs back. I am fostering/adopting one of the Sundburg’s dogs and when I think of what he endured it makes me sick!!!!! In the case of the mini aussies they were in way better shape than the Sundburg’s dogs! I know because I groomed a lot of them or saw them!
by: skagit4life on March 11, 2009 - 06:43 AM | Comment # 1229
Wgymmom...the Sandburgs will not get any of their dogs back they signed them all over to the county . the other puppy mill ran by Kris Finch is the one getting some of her dogs back. Which I think is so wrong. You might of groomed the “special ones” but believe me there was abuse to the other dogs on this property.
------------------------------by: wgymmom on March 11, 2009 - 09:08 AM | Comment # 1235
What I said was the dogs from this property were in better shape then the other dogs. I wouldn’t say I only groomed the “special ones” because I did dogs in horrific condition. Do I think they should go back NO! but laws can only go so far!
My only point was the judge isnot to blame here he is dong the best he can as is everyone in this can!
by: Jo Roark on March 11, 2009 - 09:09 AM | Comment # 1236
I have shown against Kris in the ring, her show dogs look good but she wouldn’t bring the emaciated dogs to the show.
------------------------------by: CynLajoie on March 11, 2009 - 12:01 PM | Comment # 1247
YAH Kris. I am so happy for you and your dogs !! I can’t wait till the rest of the matter goes to Court and you are VINDICATED on that as well and you can put this whole thing behind you.
------------------------------by: momma Jan on March 11, 2009 - 12:06 PM | Comment # 1248
It’s nice that Kris has ONE friend that is willing to overlook the pain and suffering her animals have gone through!!!—CynLajoie you must be such a “special” person that evidence doesn’t matter to you --so what if animals were abused -heck you can now sit back and have a cup of coffee and talk about what wonderful people you are—
------------------------------by: momma Jan on March 11, 2009 - 12:35 PM | Comment # 1250
another comment: Kris can NEVER be vindicated!!! she lost 100% of the animals the judge deemed with in the search warrant areas!!!!! what a travisty that because of a technical error 28 dogs will return to a life of misery, lack of food, no hygiene, and NO personal attention(exercise) --such a sad commentary for Skagit County—
------------------------------by: lovinskagit on March 11, 2009 - 01:00 PM | Comment # 1252
Didn’t someone say in court that not only did the house stink inside, it was a huge mess thus having cps called to have her children removed to their fathers care? Do you put your dogs before your children? or are they just your little slaves to take care of the animals.
You don’t take any responsibility for the walfare of your animals and blamed their messy cages on your children. Shame on you Kris Finch. I hope the other “matter” goes to court very soon and you are charged with animaal abuse. It’s clear that you can NOT afford all those animals and four children. Get a clue and wake up already. If its true that you work for this “Pet” place someone said before I will make sure I NEVER go in that store.
------------------------------by: ilikepie on March 11, 2009 - 01:13 PM | Comment # 1254
Don’t worry momma Jan...it’s just the same bunch of idiots that were in court saying she walked on water. The judge wasn’t fooled by all that BS.
------------------------------by: CynLajoie on March 11, 2009 - 03:57 PM | Comment # 1258
I find it ironic that NONE of you have ever been to Kris’ home. She doesn’t allow people in her Kennel and neither do I.
And before you all comment negatively. It’s called disease. I won’t allow anyone in my home when I have a litter of pups either. NOT WORTH THE RISK.
None of you have seen the “emaciated” dogs have you ?
You are all going on what a newspaper article says. Get a copy of the Court CD like I did. $10 to the Courts in Skagit County. Very easy to do. THEN YOU WILL KNOW THE TRUTH.
You think the courts would return the dogs if they were emaciated ? The Vet, IN COURT, said “21 of the 25 dogs he examined were in fine condition”. Not that many were emaciated as the newspaper stated.
I contacted the reporter and her editor and neither of them have had the decentsy to email me back.
Get a grip people.
------------------------------by: protectanimals on March 11, 2009 - 04:16 PM | Comment # 1259
In fact, I HAVE seen one of the emaciated dogs and boy, is he! Not to mention the visible-to-the-naked-eye fear of many of the others of her seized dogs. A simple clank of something sends them into a crouch and tremors. Not a normal reaction unless you regularly cause it, then of course it must be normal to be defendable.
Duh. When was the last time you were in her kennel or home, Cyn? You’re from Ontario, Canada!
I saw the pictures entered as evidence into the case and I heard first-hand the jumbled ramblings and excuses about the disgusting filth-covered crate one of the house dogs was confined in ("oh, that was outside and the dog was in a clean one”...but when the prosecutor pointed out that that same crate was in another picture and had a dog in it!, she admitted, oh, yeah, you’re absolutely right!)
CPS here in Washington doesn’t come prepared to take kids from homes unless there’s a reason—sometimes it’s hard to get them out of bad situations, so the fact that they were removed indicates a problem for sure! I heard it was her mother who turned her in, too!
------------------------------by: ilikepie on March 11, 2009 - 05:27 PM | Comment # 1260
This wasn’t the first time CPS had been investigating her. There have been other relatives that have turned her in the past. They come out, like her dogs, she has trained her kids to be scared and say nothing. CPS leaves and then she moves. But enough of her kids (who I feel sorry for).
I believe ya protectanimals....those dogs were in bad shape. I say again, there are just too many for her to keep them properly taken care of. If a simple clank freaks the dog out makes you wonder what else was being done to them.
Guess we will just have to wait and see if they press any charges against her for the 12 they kept. But I bet money when this is all done she will up and move yet again.
------------------------------by: lovinskagit on March 11, 2009 - 06:49 PM | Comment # 1261
Maybe she will move to Canada...Hey Cyn got room? =p
------------------------------by: CynLajoie on March 11, 2009 - 06:52 PM | Comment # 1262
ilikepie and protectanimals. YOU BOTH work for SPOT and you were “removed” from the Court room so go away.
You are a disreptutable rescue group that is in it for the Money and not the love of animals. Lets see how long it takes before your “rescue group” is brought to light and you are disallowed to continue.
BTW do YOU have your Kennel license ? No you don’t. I asked Skagit County when I called. So YOU chastise Kris on your website YET you are in the same boat.
Hmmmmmmmm
------------------------------by: CynLajoie on March 11, 2009 - 06:53 PM | Comment # 1263
And all this talk about CPS is insane. You are outright lying now. Pretty sad that you have to resort to that. CPS was never called. It was a ACO raid, plain and simple. And an illegal one too.
I said from day one Kris would win in Court and so far she has.
Nuff said.
------------------------------by: CynLajoie on March 11, 2009 - 06:55 PM | Comment # 1264
What a liar you are, ilikepie.
She has been at that address for atleast 10 years. She hasn’t moved in a long time.
What other lies are you going to spread ?
------------------------------by: momma Jan on March 11, 2009 - 07:30 PM | Comment # 1267
I don’t WORK for spot --I am a parent, school teacher, and animal lover--I WAS IN COURT and heard the horrific conditions these animals were imprisioned in---YOU, CynLajoie, must also have something to hide—anyone that defends a filthy, cruel environment for animals --teeth so infected the gums are STILL being treated -----NO ONE was removed from court !!!!!!! where did you make up that lie??
------------------------------by: ilikepie on March 11, 2009 - 07:46 PM | Comment # 1268
WTH...I do NOT or have I EVER worked for spot you fool. I too am a parent, animal lover and WAS in court. No one was removed.
What a liar you are, ilikepie.
She has been at that address for atleast 10 years. She hasn’t moved in a long time.
You are such a tool. She moved there 10 yrs ago after she WAS turned in to CSP. That is a fact and I know it was a family member who turned her in. Go make up some other lie.
Also, Nancy DID call CPS out to her house because it was so gross and stunk to high heaven with all the dog crap from the 12 inside the house. It took Kris 4 days to clean it and the kids lived with Jeff. She even kept her kids OUT of school to “Make them clean their own damn room”
You can try and cover all her crap up all you want but I DO know the truth. I hope she is found guilty for what she put those animals thru. She DIDN’T win in court...the warrant didn’t include the barn, that is NOT the same as being found innocent.
Make some room Cyn...she may be coming your way!! I am sure you will take her in after all, birds of a feather stick together.
------------------------------by: gremlin on March 11, 2009 - 07:55 PM | Comment # 1271
I am asking once again for this to please stop. This is not doing any good but is just hurting extended family. I totally understand that this is a super heated topic and I too love animals. I am just begging for all the personal issues to please stop.
Thanks in advance for your consideration.
Cathe (ex-sister-in-law)
by: Jo Roark on March 11, 2009 - 08:39 PM | Comment # 1276
CynLajoie,
Whatever happened with Beckett?
by: protectanimals on March 11, 2009 - 09:05 PM | Comment # 1278
ilikepie and protectanimals. YOU BOTH work for SPOT and you were “removed” from the Court room so go away.
You are a disreptutable rescue group that is in it for the Money and not the love of animals. Lets see how long it takes before your “rescue group” is brought to light and you are disallowed to continue.
BTW do YOU have your Kennel license ? No you don’t. I asked Skagit County when I called. So YOU chastise Kris on your website YET you are in the same boat.
Hmmmmmmmm
Don’t know who you think I am, but I don’t work for SPOT either, so nice guess but wrong. I was in court two days, however, and no one was removed at that time…
Looking at the SPOT website, it would appear you don’t read very well, either- I don’t see where SPOT would need a kennel license since they don’t have a shelter.
Zero for how many, Cyn? Are you sure Kris wants your inaccurate “support”?
------------------------------by: LivinUpriver on March 11, 2009 - 09:31 PM | Comment # 1279
I am asking once again for this to please stop. This is not doing any good but is just hurting extended family. I totally understand that this is a super heated topic and I too love animals. I am just begging for all the personal issues to please stop.
I completely agree. I am an animal owner and lover and am appalled by what these puppy mill owners do (and don’t do) with helpless animals who depend on us to take care of them.
That being said, the personal attacks, implication of dysfunctional family issues, naming names, housekeeping issues, CPS, where people work, etc. do not belong in here, IMO. It’s this kind of stuff that gets threads in the SVH forums closed down (and rightly so).
Please...let’s keep it to debating and discussing issues and ideology, opinions and ideas, not personal stuff - okay?
------------------------------by: protectanimals on March 11, 2009 - 09:56 PM | Comment # 1283
From LivinUpriver’s profile:
Occupation: Human lie detector & eradicator of ridiculous, void-of-fact statements
Interests: Combating willful ignorance, ad hominem and sweeping generalizations by use of logic and facts not conjecture and rumor. Bio: One of the smartest people you’ll ever know ;-) Intelligently and independently minded; I’ve never been considered one of the many sheep(le).
Wow.
------------------------------by: LivinUpriver on March 11, 2009 - 10:01 PM | Comment # 1286
From LivinUpriver’s profile: Wow.
Obviously I hit a nerve with you in my last comments, protectanimals?
------------------------------by: Jo Roark on March 11, 2009 - 10:57 PM | Comment # 1293
I am asking once again for this to please stop. This is not doing any good but is just hurting extended family. I totally understand that this is a super heated topic and I too love animals. I am just begging for all the personal issues to please stop.
I completely agree. I am an animal owner and lover and am appalled by what these puppy mill owners do (and don’t do) with helpless animals who depend on us to take care of them.
That being said, the personal attacks, implication of dysfunctional family issues, naming names, housekeeping issues, CPS, where people work, etc. do not belong in here, IMO. It’s this kind of stuff that gets threads in the SVH forums closed down (and rightly so).
Please...let’s keep it to debating and discussing issues and ideology, opinions and ideas, not personal stuff - okay?
There goes LivinUpRiver with her control issues again, hmmm..
------------------------------by: momma Jan on March 11, 2009 - 11:39 PM | Comment # 1294
Look.....NO ONE wants to intentionally hurt innocent family---the condition inside the house was brought up in court along with the odor-- so far corrections to false allegations are all that’s been said----I’m just so grateful the number of animal supporters (NOT just saying you’re pets are loved) outnumber the “Fans of Kris” and her actions.
------------------------------by: Lee_USA on March 12, 2009 - 03:40 AM | Comment # 1296
Are there any conditions Ms Finch must follow in the future to keep possession of her dogs?
------------------------------by: CynLajoie on March 12, 2009 - 08:31 AM | Comment # 1300
IF the dogs were in such deplorable conditions, they would return them then seize them again.
Grow a brain will ya ?
------------------------------by: CynLajoie on March 12, 2009 - 08:32 AM | Comment # 1301
And to the issue of CPS being at her home 10 years ago ?
Sad that you people have nothing better to do then drum up lies.
THINK people, THINK. God gave you a brain. Use it.
------------------------------by: Jo Roark on March 12, 2009 - 09:33 AM | Comment # 1304
Kris chose to do what she did and as far as I am concerned her guilt lies in the 12 dogs and 2 ponies that were not given back to her. Hopefully, she will have to atone for the abuse of these animals.
I realize that this is probably very hurtful for her extended family but the public is not at fault, the blame lies with Kris. She brought this on herself, her family and extended family.
by: CynLajoie on March 12, 2009 - 09:46 AM | Comment # 1305
Ho Roark - Whatever happened with Beckett?
You lost me there. Beckett ?
------------------------------by: BEMOM on March 12, 2009 - 01:41 PM | Comment # 1319
I don’t know Kris personally, nor do I care to. She will be punished according to the law and the judges are not to blame. If we want changes made then we need to write to Olympia. We can spend our time here doing blame game or we can all try to fix this from happening in the future.
This past weekend I was shopping when I happened to meet a woman who is fostering several of these dogs. She went on to tell me an amazing storing of humanity and how the people of Skagit Valley have come together to make a postive out of a negative. In this terrible economy when her furnace went down and she was given a $250 estimate for repair, she went ahead and had the work done. However, when the repairman learned these were fostered dogs from the kennel he handed her a bill with a ZERO balance. In another case for this same woman the vet had to mix up special eye cream for a few of the dogs and when she picked up the ointment her total was below pharmacy cost.
My point is rather then sit and harp on all of what is wrong with this case, maybe we should be trying to find the good in what has happened. These dogs have been given second chances. The people of Skagit Valley and other counties have banded together to try and right a terrible wrong. Kris Finch will get her day in court. Clearly if there is a real issue it will not just right itself because she gets away with it. As the saying goes...."a leopard cannot change it’s spots”....if she abused once, she will likely abuse again. But for now think of these animals..find a way that you can help.....
by: gremlin on March 12, 2009 - 03:31 PM | Comment # 1322
To whom it may concern,
I did NOT turn Kris into animal control. It doesn’t matter if I disapprove or approve of the dogs no one likes to see their children hurt no matter what the situation.
Mom
------------------------------by: CynLajoie on March 12, 2009 - 04:13 PM | Comment # 1325
SPOT does need a License and they are NOT licensed by Skagit County to date.
“Day-use Kennel: any premises at which one or more dogs, cats, or both are kept during daytime hours for a commercial purpose including but not limited to grooming, training, and/or boarding.
Limited Kennel: any premises at which one or more dogs, cats, or both are kept overnight for a commercial purpose including but not limited to breeding or selling. A single, incidental litter in a 12-month period is not a commercial purpose.
Overnight Boarding Kennel: any premises at which one or more dogs, cats, or both are kept overnight for the commercial purpose of boarding. “
by: LivinUpriver on March 12, 2009 - 04:20 PM | Comment # 1326
SPOT does need a License and they are NOT licensed by Skagit County to date.
Well...since SPOT is a non-profit, then they are not affected by the above. What you posted above is in a regulation for commercial (i.e., for-profit) kennels. SPOT doesn’t fall into that category, ergo, they are exempt..
------------------------------by: BEMOM on March 12, 2009 - 04:55 PM | Comment # 1327
and isn’t SPOT in Snohomish county anyway?
------------------------------by: LivinUpriver on March 12, 2009 - 05:02 PM | Comment # 1328
isn’t SPOT in Snohomish county anyway?
No, they’re in Skagit County.
------------------------------by: Bull Dog on March 12, 2009 - 05:04 PM | Comment # 1329
to all who give a darn, gremlin is an extended part of this family. She is right, this stuff needs to stop. whatever happens happens.
------------------------------by: BEMOM on March 12, 2009 - 05:15 PM | Comment # 1331
thanks for that, upriver. I know they are close to the Snohomish Co. line. I think that this Cyn person is just trying to fling poo at Spot to deflect from the fact that a kennel actually PROFITS from their dogs and Spot has the joy of actually placing dogs and cats with people who want to give a dog or cat a second chance. It is my personal opininon that people who breed for profit are a disgrace. I have an English Bulldog from a local breeder who never breaks even on her litters. Her dogs are healthy and she has a stellar reputation. My inlaws breed horses for the joy of it and always end up keeping their foals. They may sell one or two over the course of two seasons, but it hardly pays the mortgage let alone land taxes.
If a person sits at home waiting to bank on a litter of puppies then shame on them. Dogs and cats do not have a voice in these situations. Would we as people like to be bred for money? I know that is far fetched, but still. Imagine yourself in a cage, no exercise....dogs suffer from depression just as people do. My husband has a dog that drives me INSANE and I would never abuse or neglect him. It comes down to simple humanity and compassion.
by: Jo Roark on March 12, 2009 - 05:17 PM | Comment # 1332
Ho Roark - Whatever happened with Beckett?
You lost me there. Beckett ?
Yes, Kris has a Coton de Tulear that goes by the name of Beckett, all white dog, tons of coat.. Just like to know if he is ok.
------------------------------by: LivinUpriver on March 12, 2009 - 05:38 PM | Comment # 1333
If a person sits at home waiting to bank on a litter of puppies then shame on them. Dogs and cats do not have a voice in these situations. Would we as people like to be bred for money?
I had never thought about it that way, but you are right. Breeding dogs in and of itself is not wrong, but doing it strictly for a profit, definitely wrong.
------------------------------by: justthefacts on March 12, 2009 - 06:57 PM | Comment # 1337
You are so far off topic it is not even funny. It was said in court by many people including animal control that she would not be considered a puppy mill and the she does not breed for money. Come on stay on topic and keep the personal attacks that I can tell are based on nothing but opinion out of this forum.
------------------------------by: LivinUpriver on March 12, 2009 - 07:03 PM | Comment # 1338
stay on topic and keep the personal attacks that I can tell are based on nothing but opinion
Actually, there’s nothing wrong with giving opinions in this forum. As long as one is honest about their opinion being an opinion and that person doesn’t try to represent their opinion as fact, opinions are not verboten and are most certainly welcome.
Now...as far as whether or not Kris Finch breeds her dogs for $$, I find it hard to believe that she gives her puppies away for free. Are you sure you are interested in “justthefacts”?
------------------------------by: justthefacts on March 12, 2009 - 07:23 PM | Comment # 1339
Absolutely, but does she make a profit? break even? Loose money? We do not know, so yes I am intrested in the facts. Opinion is one thing but her cps record, who turned her in, these are not facts and they are just posted to cause harm. That is the part of “opinion” that should be keept off this forum. The people that posted this info did not say that it was their opinion and did not give any facts to back up the statement.
------------------------------by: CynLajoie on March 12, 2009 - 07:35 PM | Comment # 1340
44 dogs and one litter last year.
Wow...........how many millions is she selling her dogs for ?
Kris is not a person that breeds for profit.
So what next are you going to sling people ?
------------------------------by: CynLajoie on March 12, 2009 - 07:39 PM | Comment # 1341
SPOT falls into the catagory of a Day use kennel THEREFORE needing to be licensed as such.
“Day-use Kennel: any premises at which one or more dogs, cats, or both are kept during daytime hours for a commercial purpose including but not limited to grooming, training, and/or boarding.
If SPOT is NON PROFIT then please explain to me why SPOT HIRED a lawyer with donation money, and are demanding $24,000. from Kris Finch ?
44 dogs, boarded for seven weeks, $24,000 hmmmm that amounts to $489 A DAY ? Sounds like PROFIT TO ME !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
------------------------------by: LivinUpriver on March 12, 2009 - 07:40 PM | Comment # 1342
44 dogs and one litter last year.
Hmmm...well, until recently, she had “puppies available” on her website. So, I don’t think your information is quite accurate.
------------------------------by: CynLajoie on March 12, 2009 - 07:43 PM | Comment # 1343
Do any of you realize what it costs to have a litter ? Both parents are OFA’d, Eye Cerf’d yearly, the pups are Cerf’d. Then add to that time off work when you have a litter, cost of raising them until they are ready to go and add to that Kris doesn’t just “sell” her pups. YOU have to qualify for one of her pups.
One litter doesn’t not even begin to cover the cost of the ##### and the stud let alone.....all of her other dogs SO AGAIN, stick to the facts and the facts are she is not a puppy mill or a breeding for profit breeder.
------------------------------by: CynLajoie on March 12, 2009 - 07:44 PM | Comment # 1344
LivinUpriver are you that daft ?
Go look at the date of the pups for sale on her website.
She had ONE litter last year.
------------------------------by: LivinUpriver on March 12, 2009 - 07:46 PM | Comment # 1345
SPOT falls into the catagory of a Day use kennel THEREFORE needing to be licensed as such.
“Day-use Kennel: any premises at which one or more dogs, cats, or both are kept during daytime hours for a commercial purpose including but not limited to grooming, training, and/or boarding.
If SPOT is NON PROFIT then please explain to me why SPOT HIRED a lawyer with donation money, and are demanding $24,000. from Kris Finch ?
SPOT *is* non-profit. If you have a problem with how they do business *as* a non-profit, I suggest you take your concerns to the State of Washington’s non-profit division. And BTW, how and why they hired a lawyer has nothing to do with their non-profit status.
------------------------------by: CynLajoie on March 12, 2009 - 07:51 PM | Comment # 1346
Non profit means just that.
They DONT make a profit.
If they want that kind of money from the County or Kris Finch for boarding her dogs, and CAN afford to hire a lawyer to attain such ? That’s just rude.
ADD to that that MOST if not all people VOLUNTEER their time, efforts and foster homes ?
Well now...........then where would that $24,000. SPOT is demanding go ????
It’s called PROFIT.
------------------------------by: LivinUpriver on March 12, 2009 - 07:54 PM | Comment # 1348
LivinUpriver are you that daft ?
Not at all. I know that until very recently, she had puppies listed as being for sale and that there was an advertisement that new pups were forthcoming. Right now on here website you can find, “We have puppies! Two little black tri boys! They will be full size Aussies.” and “Upcoming litters!!! Contact me for upcoming litters.” Now, on her main page it now says, “Available Dogs We don’t have any dogs or puppies available at this time. If you are looking for a dog or a puppy, you can contact me at (360) 630-5049 and I can refer a reputable breeder to you. Updated 2/28/09”. However, elswhere on the website it is obvious that she not only had puppies for sale recently, but was planning on having more in the near future.
Or does she make a habit of advertising falsely?
------------------------------by: LivinUpriver on March 12, 2009 - 07:58 PM | Comment # 1349
Non profit means just that.
They DONT make a profit.
If they want that kind of money from the County or Kris Finch for boarding her dogs, and CAN afford to hire a lawyer to attain such ? That’s just rude.
ADD to that that MOST if not all people VOLUNTEER their time, efforts and foster homes ?
Well now...........then where would that $24,000. SPOT is demanding go ????
It’s called PROFIT.
You obviously don’t understand how non-profit organizations work. Just because they are non-profit that doesn’t mean that there is no money involved and that if necessary a lawyer cannot be hired from the money they have available. I suggest you educate yourself and find out what a non-profit organization does and how it works financially before you continue making claims that only further cause you look quite ignorant.
------------------------------by: justthefacts on March 12, 2009 - 08:02 PM | Comment # 1351
Humm I dont know the legal side but it would seem to me that spot would need a kennel permit if they are bording dogs (or cats). There is however a Day use kennel that is very closly related to spot that does not have a permit as of this date.
http://www.crittersittersdcp.com/about_critter_sitters.html
------------------------------by: Jo Roark on March 12, 2009 - 08:05 PM | Comment # 1352
The SPOT website http://www.savingpetsoneatatime.org/index.php?page_id=290 Scroll down to the bottom of the page, its a non profit organization.
The money that SPOT is bringing probably goes to neutering, spaying, food and caring for animals until they are adopted. Taking care of animals isn’t cheap.
by: Skagitonian5705 on March 12, 2009 - 08:08 PM | Comment # 1353
CynLajoie what the heck are you talking about. Of course she is in it for the profit, she definately is not bringing all these puppies into the world out of the goodness of her heart. If that was the case, she would have treated these dogs alot better than she has.
CynLajoie get off your high horse.
------------------------------by: BEMOM on March 12, 2009 - 08:17 PM | Comment # 1357
Hey, Cyn, I had kept my tongue in check until I read your naive statement about Spot hiring an attorney to recoup funds...they are in fact a non profit entity..Upriver is right, you want to complain about their status then go to the correct officials. HOWEVER...Spot is in existance to find homes for unwanted and displaced animals. It is not in their budget to take on the responsibilities of an irresponsible woman who only gave “proper” care to 12 of her 40 animals. They rely on adoption fees to help take care of future animals that will come into their care. Do you believe that if they had just knocked on Kris Finches door and kindly asked for compensation for their effort she would have happily cut them a check? I DOUBT IT. Hence the need for an attorney. It should not be the financial burden of our non profit shelters or our Humane Society to pay the tab for a person who clearly was overwhelmed by a situation OF HER CHOICE and could not properly care for her animals.
------------------------------by: justthefacts on March 12, 2009 - 08:33 PM | Comment # 1360
who only gave “proper” care to 12 of her 40 animals.
Check your facts
Do you really think almost 500.00 per day is what it takes to care for these dogs? Seem high to me. Spay and neuters are payed for through the pet adoption fees.
------------------------------by: Jo Roark on March 12, 2009 - 09:02 PM | Comment # 1361
I think they probably have the dogs vet checked and may need repeat visits if they have been neglected or abused, I doubt vets are treating any of these dogs for free. Probably many of them need to be wormed. Then there is the food, good quality food is not cheap either. Then these dogs have to be transported to people that will care for them until their adoption, that takes gas and that isn’t cheap either.
------------------------------by: justthefacts on March 12, 2009 - 09:17 PM | Comment # 1362
And this adds up to almost 500.00 per day? It is my understanding that none of the dogs have had any vet care except for the Italian Grayhound that had it’s leg broken in foster care and two dogs that were injured in a fight while in foster care.
------------------------------by: Jo Roark on March 12, 2009 - 10:09 PM | Comment # 1363
Justthefacts,
Hmmm..it is odd, isn’t it? I had assumed they all would have been vet checked, $500.00 a day is a lot of money. I wonder why?
by: Crystal Rose on March 12, 2009 - 10:34 PM | Comment # 1364
$500 a day for 44 dogs is cheep.
24, 000 / 44 dogs x 7 weeks x 7 days in a week = about $12 a day per dog.
Unless my math is wrong, and I’m sure I’ll be corrected if it is
------------------------------by: wipeoutpuppymills on March 13, 2009 - 12:43 AM | Comment # 1368
I have been following the posts here, however, I see no one has come up with an answer regarding the Coton de Tulear named Beckett. Cyn Joy? I am asking you because you seem to know so many intimate details regarding Kris Finch even though you are supposedly located in eastern Canada. What has happened to Beckett? His breeder/co-owner deserves an answer. He is 5 1/2 years old.....As far as rescue, it costs these non-profit organizations a fortune to take care of abused, neglected and unwanted animals. And there is of course veterinary care, why would anyone think there isn’t? It was stated in at least two newspaper articles regarding the Kris Finch case that veterinarians examined these dogs and cared for them. They had to due to their poor condition. Kris Finch is not a reputable breeder, but a collector of dogs, and any monetary gain they could bring her way. No normal, sane person houses 40 dogs. These dogs didn’t get proper care, and that is why they were emaciated and in such poor condition. What does anyone expect if a dog is left in a crate for 18 hours a day, or in a barn where once let out they have difficulty adjusting to the light because they have been forced to be in a dark, dank barn? When left in crates as some were causes muscles to completely atrophy in these types of extreme conditions. You can’t love any animal and treat them this way. It is a disgrace. The suffering these poor little souls had to endure is heartbreaking. I don’t know how someone like Kris Finch sleeps at night when knowing their dogs are stuck out in a barn. Dogs that want so much for human companionship, but instead live a sad lonely existence.
------------------------------by: momma Jan on March 13, 2009 - 01:11 AM | Comment # 1369
Yea!!!!, wipeoutpuppymills --that’s the whole emotional point ---the animals CANNOT speak for themselves --with out “angels” willing to go out on a limb they would be lost and the silence would be deafening---I have so much graditude towards the people that rescued these suffering animals --bless the rescue organizations ,volunteers,and community that donates heart/money/medical attention....... needed to heal broken souls—--
------------------------------by: Don Johnson on March 13, 2009 - 01:21 AM | Comment # 1370
I think that SPOT is being confused with NOAH, which is located in northern Snohomish County. SPOT is based in Burlington. However, since they do not operate out of a kennel facility, they do not need any type of kennel license. From their web page at http://www.savingpetsoneatatime.org/index.php?page_id=290:
SPOT does not have a central facility but rather relies on a group of foster homes. These homes provide a safe haven for the animals until they can be placed in a permanent home. The foster homes are carefully screened to ensure that proper care and a loving environment will be provided during the animal’s stay. SPOT has a limited number of volunteer foster homes currently available, so if you are interested in becoming a foster home for SPOT, please contact the organization.
------------------------------by: Jo Roark on March 13, 2009 - 05:01 AM | Comment # 1372
I have been following the posts here, however, I see no one has come up with an answer regarding the Coton de Tulear named Beckett. Cyn Joy? I am asking you because you seem to know so many intimate details regarding Kris Finch even though you are supposedly located in eastern Canada. What has happened to Beckett? His breeder/co-owner deserves an answer. He is 5 1/2 years old.....As far as rescue, it costs these non-profit organizations a fortune to take care of abused, neglected and unwanted animals. And there is of course veterinary care, why would anyone think there isn’t? It was stated in at least two newspaper articles regarding the Kris Finch case that veterinarians examined these dogs and cared for them. They had to due to their poor condition. Kris Finch is not a reputable breeder, but a collector of dogs, and any monetary gain they could bring her way. No normal, sane person houses 40 dogs. These dogs didn’t get proper care, and that is why they were emaciated and in such poor condition. What does anyone expect if a dog is left in a crate for 18 hours a day, or in a barn where once let out they have difficulty adjusting to the light because they have been forced to be in a dark, dank barn? When left in crates as some were causes muscles to completely atrophy in these types of extreme conditions. You can’t love any animal and treat them this way. It is a disgrace. The suffering these poor little souls had to endure is heartbreaking. I don’t know how someone like Kris Finch sleeps at night when knowing their dogs are stuck out in a barn. Dogs that want so much for human companionship, but instead live a sad lonely existence.
You are absolutely right in everything you have said. She doesn’t deserve her dogs back, they should go to homes that will love them.
------------------------------by: Jo Roark on March 13, 2009 - 05:19 AM | Comment # 1373
wipeoutpuppymills,
I didn’t know anyone else was aware of Beckett. Kris showed him for awhile a few years ago and then she stopped. I know the breeder/co-owner and she does deserve to know how and where he is. He is such a sweet boy. I thought the only people that could reply on goskagit were skagitonians, am I wrong?
by: LivinUpriver on March 13, 2009 - 06:49 AM | Comment # 1377
am I wrong?
Frequently, yes.
------------------------------by: Crystal Rose on March 13, 2009 - 09:28 AM | Comment # 1379
Wouldn’t it be the co-owners right or responsibility to contact the proper people to find out what happend to the dogs they co-owned? They have the right to know and if there not getting the answers from Kris then they should be contacting animal controll, spot and the courts for the answers. From what I’m reading on here there is a lot of finger pointing, accusations, opinions, emotions and rumors.
Reminds me alot of what my dad called “hen parties” where all the lady folks would hang out in the kitchen and exchange gossip, and the men folks would hang out round the barn and do the same.
------------------------------by: Bull Dog on March 13, 2009 - 11:24 AM | Comment # 1383
livinupriver- there are plenty of dogs and puppies that kris has given away. kris does require that these animals get altered. but then again i don’t think any of you people care about that. everyone is so interested in criticizing that no one even thinks that it is possible for a family of 5 to take care of that many animals. can we please just stop the BS and see what happens????
------------------------------by: Bull Dog on March 13, 2009 - 12:16 PM | Comment # 1384
Crystal Rose- the co owner has not attempted to contact kris- and besides the last person who’s dog got taken had to wait 3 weeks to get him back. that shows how well the county and spot inventoried the animals they took.
------------------------------by: Crystal Rose on March 13, 2009 - 01:23 PM | Comment # 1387
I’m not taking sides in this issue, I’m just hearing a lot of different things from different people with different points of view. And it has raised some questions.
If the co-owner was concerned about the cotton why are they not seeking out the answers and why is it beeing brought to a public forum by a 3rd party?
If it is correct - that while in the care of the county why were dogs lost and or injured - who will be held accountable?
Why is every one so up in arms about this breeder while there are plenty of others in this county that continue to exist and are not beeing brought into question? If I am not mistaken another breeder was investigated back in October but the county stated “the cost would prohibit the county from seizing them (the dogs) unless conditions worsen”. Why is it “feasable” to take small fuzzy cute adoptable dogs but not large probably unadoptable dogs under simular or worse conditions?
And some people are quick to point out the poop piles in every one elses back yards but neglect to look at all the ones in there own back yard.
------------------------------by: momma Jan on March 13, 2009 - 02:27 PM | Comment # 1388
crystal rose YOU ARE taking sides --there would NEVER be ANY poop in my yard like was in Kris’s house and kennels!!!!!! pictures don’t lie!!!--- the Italian Greyhound had been kept in his cage for so long that when he was taken out to walk his leg broke!!!!! true, Italian Greyhounds have fragile bones BUT a break should not come from just walking--poor dear was so confined with muscle mass loss he couldn’t walk with out an injury--If you are aware of ANY other puppy mills than be an honorable person and tell the authorities --I only hope the animal control people keep a viligant watch on Kris’s kennels and if another search warrent is necessary then “go at it” --I’ve heard Kris wants to move to Whatcom County --great--she’ll be closer to me and my prying eyes---
------------------------------by: Bull Dog on March 13, 2009 - 02:49 PM | Comment # 1389
i think it is kind of funny, for the information about one of the italian greyhounds breaking its leg when he came out to walk. obviously some facts are really screwed up because it was said that it was the female (the dog that was promised to someone else as a therapy dog). This BS just keeps getting deeper and deeper. Once again, no one knows the truth.
------------------------------by: Jo Roark on March 13, 2009 - 03:06 PM | Comment # 1390
am I wrong?
Frequently, yes.
c’mon Livin’ get down off of your little pedestal.
------------------------------by: Jo Roark on March 13, 2009 - 03:13 PM | Comment # 1391
CynLajoie,
You still haven’t answered me in regards to Beckett.
by: Jo Roark on March 13, 2009 - 03:15 PM | Comment # 1392
Kris is thinking about moving to Whatcom county, huh? Things just a tad bit too hot here?
------------------------------by: Jo Roark on March 13, 2009 - 03:16 PM | Comment # 1393
i think it is kind of funny, for the information about one of the italian greyhounds breaking its leg when he came out to walk. obviously some facts are really screwed up because it was said that it was the female (the dog that was promised to someone else as a therapy dog). This BS just keeps getting deeper and deeper. Once again, no one knows the truth.
Well, then maybe you should be the one to tell us what the truth is?
------------------------------by: Crystal Rose on March 13, 2009 - 03:24 PM | Comment # 1395
Point made. Instead of fact based answers a defensive attack is made instead based on rumors and assumptions. The greahounds injuries could not have been caused by beeing placed in a crate and tranported and housed in a stress filled enviroment a healthy dog would have had a hard time handeling much less a high strung breed? A hairline fracture could have been caused at any time, including getting bounced around in a crate in a moving vehicle, and the stress of the situation and walking on it could have caused it to fully fracture. I don’t know I wasn’t there to witness it nor have I seen any concrete proof or first hand facts related to it. Was the dog examined immediatily after it was taken or did it take days before the examination if an examination was done before the break. Were you a direct witness to the injury or are you repeating what you heard second or 3rd hand?
I’m probably not going to make a lot of friends here but im just trying to get questions answered. I dislike and disapprove of neglect and abuse just as much as the next person if not more. And if they are guilty they should be held accountable for there actions. I have several pets that have come from abusive and neglectful situations that were rescued from death row because they were deemed “unadoptable” by shelters and rescue agencies.
Next?
------------------------------by: CynLajoie on March 13, 2009 - 03:33 PM | Comment # 1396
Livinupriver, you obviously have a learning ability or you just live to cause turmoil.
IF you care to read ALL of Kris’ website. She HAD a litter last year. ONE litter.
THE PUPPIES are here are a Salem/Maverick litter. Read the fine print. Years ago.
Upcoming litters. SURE. We always have our litters planned. I have my next 3 litters planned. One to my stud and two to outside studs. ONE is on the way now and the other two are for late Fall, early winter.
WOW. ... . IM a puppy mill !!!
It’s called being a BREEDER.
A Puppy Mill is a very different thing. They have litter after litter after litter. No health testing, no guarantee, the dogs are NOT Champions (which most of Kris’ are before they are bred).
EDUCATE yourself on the dog world and then come back and talk.
------------------------------by: CynLajoie on March 13, 2009 - 03:35 PM | Comment # 1397
Non profit means just that. NON profit. There bank account stays under $10,000. to remain NON PROFIT.
Food is donated
Time is donated.
Supplies (cages, collars, leashes, food) is donated.
So WHY is SPOT demanding $24,000. and EVEN walked into the Court and tried to interupt the proceedings to demand the Judge addres it ?
I can’t believe after all SPOT has done that people are still stupid enough to GIVE them money.
They should be reported.
------------------------------by: CynLajoie on March 13, 2009 - 03:42 PM | Comment # 1398
Momma Jan, you are so full of it. SPOT and ACO are responsible for the greyhounds leg getting broken and I hope to God that when this is all over that Kris sues their butts off for it, as well as the defamation of character, slander, hardship to the family etc.
OPEN YOUR EYES PEOPLE.
The court, bad warrant or not, would NOT return 21 of her dogs IF the conditions were as YOU say !!!
THEY would have seem these horrible conditions and just reissued a valid warrant and REseized the dogs.
THINK ABOUT IT !!
------------------------------by: LivinUpriver on March 13, 2009 - 03:49 PM | Comment # 1400
Livinupriver, you obviously have a learning ability
Yes, I do have learning abilities, thanks for noticing. ;-)
IF you care to read ALL of Kris’ website. She HAD a litter last year. ONE litter.
Sorry, that isn’t obvious on her website (any one else care to weigh in on this one?). Feel free to post the specific link to where her website says she only had one litter last year and none so far this year.
THE PUPPIES are here are a Salem/Maverick litter. Read the fine print.
Where, exactly *is* that “fine print”?
Upcoming litters. SURE. We always have our litters planned.
Okay...I see now. You’re a dog-breeder like Ms. Finch and are speaking from a biased viewpoint. Got it.
{quote]EDUCATE yourself on the dog world and then come back and talk.
Somehow, it seems to me that one shouldn’t have to “educate [themselves] on the dog world...” to read a website for content. The website states very clearly, “We have puppies! Two little black tri boys! They will be full size Aussies.” and “Upcoming litters!!! Contact me for upcoming litters.” It seems to me that either you’re mistaken about Ms. Finch’s breeding habits or your friend advertises falsely on her *business* website.
------------------------------by: LivinUpriver on March 13, 2009 - 03:57 PM | Comment # 1402
Non profit means just that. NON profit. There bank account stays under $10,000. to remain NON PROFIT.
Really? According to whom? I have been involved with non-profits for years that spend a whole lot more than $10k and have bank accounts with $$ well over $10k. Can you cite your source for this information?
But, regardless, how do you know that SPOT has *hired* a lawyer? Isn’t it possible that the lawyer’s time is donated? (or are you just grasping at straws here and making assumptions?)
Food is donated
Time is donated.
Supplies (cages, collars, leashes, food) is donated.
Yeah...and?
So WHY is SPOT demanding $24,000.
I don’t know...why not ask them?
and EVEN walked into the Court and tried to interupt the proceedings to demand the Judge addres it ?
No kidding. Funny...someone said a few days ago that you don’t even live here. Canada, right? So...(help me understand here)...exactly how is it you know that this actually happened...?
I can’t believe after all SPOT has done that people are still stupid enough to GIVE them money.
Riiight...people are “stupid enough” to give to a charity that takes care of pets and has a great reputation. Apparently you think that’s a bad thing...?
They should be reported.Hey, knock yourself out doing so and good luck with that (or are you just “all blow and no show”?)
------------------------------
by: LivinUpriver on March 13, 2009 - 03:59 PM | Comment # 1403
I can’t believe after all SPOT has done that people are still stupid enough to GIVE them money.
Riiight...people are “stupid enough” to give to a charity that takes care of pets and has a great reputation. Apparently you think that’s a bad thing...?
They should be reported.
Hey, knock yourself out doing so and good luck with that (or are you just “all blow and no show”?)
------------------------------
by: BEMOM on March 13, 2009 - 04:00 PM | Comment # 1404
Kris shouldn’t get a penny if she were even crazy enough to sue for defamation of character, slander and hardship. She caused this hardship unto herself, someone else made a good point. PICTURES DON’T LIE. If there were feces in the home and yard then that is a fact. The judge droppped the ball and admits it, the courts are so up to their knees and elbows in this that they aren’t going to return the dogs just to reseize them. They had to do what was with in the law. She got some of the dogs back. That isn’t testimony to her not being guilty of something as heinous as animal neglect. This isn’t a “that’s not so bad, it could have been wors..” case. It is what it is. I have met Emily Diaz on numerous occasions, she doesn’t just go out looking to ruin peoples lives. If she felt those animals were in danger then she did the right thing by having them removed.
------------------------------
And Cyn’ it’s a learning DISABILITY...not ability that you seem to be accusing Livinupriver of...tongue tied a bit are you?
by: CynLajoie on March 13, 2009 - 04:18 PM | Comment # 1408
livinupriver. Wow. You’re selective knowledge is mind boggling. You “seem” intelligent yet you play “dumb”.
1- It was clearly stated in Court Kris had one litter last year.
------------------------------
2 - I talk to Kris all the time about dogs, kids, work, etc. SHE had one litter last year.
3 - Most of her dogs ARE male. Intact BECAUSE she shows them. You can’t show a neutered dog.
4 - Not one of the dogs seized was pregnant. If Kris was a “for profit” Breeder you dont’ think atleast one dog out of 44 would have been pregnant ???
5 - Were any puppies seized ? NO, because there weren’t ANY !!
6 - Because I breed dogs doesn’t make it biased. It makes me UNDERSTANDING to her situation.
7 - I rescue as well and I can guarantee you NEITHER of us made a dime of profit from our dogs last year. I had one litter, Kris had one litter.
8 - Some of her dogs are rescues, did you KNOW that ? Or do you even care ?
9 - Read her contract. You’ll be surprised.
10 - I have known for Kris for years. I love the woman to death. She’s been to h*ll and back in the last few years YET through it all her kids and her dogs remained her two most important things.
by: CynLajoie on March 13, 2009 - 04:24 PM | Comment # 1409
And to the SPOT issue.
If it costs $24000. to keep 40 dogs for 49 days then no one could afford to have a pet.
YOU telling me it costs $4312 PER YEAR to keep a dog ?
And ADD to that......leashes, collars, cages, dog food, VET CARE, fostering, time working with dogs. ALL FREE. ALL DONATED
It’s called SPOT making a profit.
It’s disgusting. I have contacted many many other rescues about this and they are disgusted as well.
ALSO until I threatened to contact the local Skagit newspapers, SPOT had Kris name, address, phone number, email address, pictures of her home, her landlords name and contact info ON THE MAIN PAGE of their website telling people to go after her.
SPOT is not a dog rescue. It is a bunch of bitter women, with no brains, trying to make a profit of people’s ignorance.
They are PLAYING Judge, Jury and Executioner.
It’s not a Rescue organization’s role to get involved in a raid OTHER then to care for the animals !!
Do a google search for ANY rescue group in the US and I guarantee you SPOT is the only one that attacks someone who has not EVEN BEEN charged with a crime.
It’s called Slander and they will find out soon enough what that means. I saved the page EVEN though they removed it.
------------------------------
by: BEMOM on March 13, 2009 - 04:32 PM | Comment # 1411
Okay, so Cyn, litters and “profit” aside here....WHY exactly does she have 40 dogs? Because I am a big animal lover myself and we have 16 acres we lease. On that 16 wonderful acres reside 3, yes, 3 horses. I don’t want to bite off more then I can chew. Did Kris ever think of that? In the area we reside we are permitted 4 dogs..yet I remain at 3. My point is, if Kris had so many dogs because she is a kind and gracious woman, then why did they live in such deplorabale conditions? FACTS ARE FACTS...they were in less then acceptable living quarters. You can’t candy coat that. You say Kris is a wonderful person, that’s great. Wonderful people make mistakes each and every day. She should own up to it and release all of her pets. And if her landlord is smart not return her damage deposit!
------------------------------
by: LivinUpriver on March 13, 2009 - 04:43 PM | Comment # 1414
It was clearly stated in Court Kris had one litter last year.
I wasn’t in court. All I have to go on is what I have seen on her *business* website.
I talk to Kris all the time about dogs, kids, work, etc. SHE had one litter last year.
She wouldn’t lie to you, huh?
Not one of the dogs seized was pregnant. If Kris was a “for profit” Breeder you dont’ think atleast one dog out of 44 would have been pregnant ???
From what her *business* website says it appears that she has puppies available frequently. I guess it’s now clear she advertises fraudulently.
Were any puppies seized ? NO, because there weren’t ANY !!
Once again, it’s now apparent she advertises fraudulently on her *business* website. Thanks for clearing that up.
Because I breed dogs doesn’t make it biased. It makes me UNDERSTANDING to her situation.
Because you breed dogs and are friends with Ms. Finch, you are biased. *Very* biased.
I rescue as well and I can guarantee you NEITHER of us made a dime of profit from our dogs last year. I had one litter, Kris had one litter.
You know specifically what Ms. Finch’s finances are and exactly how much money she makes from her dog-breeding business? Wow, you guys must be *super* close (and, thus, more biased).
Some of her dogs are rescues, did you KNOW that ?
How ironic - she has rescue dogs that needed to be rescued from her. Great.
Read her contract. You’ll be surprised.
Why? People write all kinds of things on *business* websites that don’t give a real picture of what the actual physical condition their business is in. That’s the issue here, not what she requires of those purchasing a puppy or adult dog from her.
I have known for Kris for years. I love the woman to death.
Another strike against you in the bias column.
She’s been to h*ll and back in the last few years
She took her animals with her. Misery loves company, I guess.
YET through it all her kids and her dogs remained her two most important things.
Living in filth (both dogs and people) doesn’t say to me that they are high on the importance list. Sorry, but I’m now convinced that you are not looking at this situation from an objective viewpoint, Cyn. I’ll stick with the facts, thanks.
------------------------------
by: CynLajoie on March 13, 2009 - 04:49 PM | Comment # 1415
I find it ironic that NONE of you are addressing the fact that 21 dogs are going back !!!!
Explain that to me ?
Bad warrant or not. WHY, if the living conditions and the condition of the dogs were so deplorable ?
ACO saw it now. They can go back based on that information and start all over again, re-issue the warrant and re-seize.
Oh......NOT being done, now is it ?
Why not ?
If one of you busy bodies can tell me that, I’ll shut up.
Until then, MY OPINION is that the dogs were not living in the conditions they stated. PERIOD.
Oh and Emily Diaz is SO concerned about the terrible conditions ???? WHY then did she not do something about it waaaaaay back in November when she saw the dogs ?????
Again, could it be that conditions weren’t that bad ?
Think about it and get back to me.
------------------------------
by: CynLajoie on March 13, 2009 - 04:51 PM | Comment # 1416
And just how to I know ???
Two ways.
1 - I talk to Kris all the time. She is a very close friend.
2 - Flip the Skagit Court house a $10 money order and you too can get a copy of the Court proceedings on dvd just like I did.
------------------------------
by: LivinUpriver on March 13, 2009 - 05:06 PM | Comment # 1417
Oh and Emily Diaz is SO concerned about the terrible conditions ???? WHY then did she not do something about it waaaaaay back in November when she saw the dogs ?????
You know what? You’re not from here, you don’t live here. Emily Diaz is a well-known and well respected county employee who cares very much about the welfare of animals. You wanna criticize government officials? Maybe you should stick with those in your own country, province, and jurisdiction…
Think about it and get back to me.
You know, I’ve never said this to another poster in a forum in my life (because I believe very strongly in the right to free speech), but...I think it’s safe to say that the majority in here are definitely *not* in your camp…
...please go away and take your demands as well as your biased, top-loaded statements and denial elsewhere.
------------------------------
by: Lee_USA on March 13, 2009 - 05:09 PM | Comment # 1418
Go look at the date of the pups for sale on her website.
She had ONE litter last year.
But in previous years Ms Finch has allowed her dogs to breed heat after heat. She had one female named Peaches who had nine puppies in 2004 after having eight puppies in 2003. Later in 2004, Peaches had another litter of five puppies. That’s 22 puppies in 2 years...from just that one female.
http://www.geocities.com/auslandpups/PeachesShorty.html
------------------------------
by: DeerHunterMom on March 13, 2009 - 05:44 PM | Comment # 1421
Why is it that most abusers (or neglecters) in Skagit county, whether towards animals or people, always seem to get off because of some sort of technicality?? This is not the first case (or the last, I’m sure) in Skagit county that has let abusers off for a silly technicality. Most victims slip through the cracks here in Skagit. Pray your never a victim in Skagit county because there will be something on behalf of the county that will let the abuser off scotch free eventually. And if you have never been a victim in Skagit then you would not know what I am talking about. Pray things change around here and justice for all victims (animal or people) here in Skagit County!
------------------------------
by: justthefacts on March 13, 2009 - 06:07 PM | Comment # 1423
None of this has anything to do with the facts of the case. livinupriver you are more interested in slinging mud than the topic at hand. Stop fighting with each other just because there opinion is not the same as yours, some of us are here to read intelligent posts not childish fighting.
------------------------------
by: LivinUpriver on March 13, 2009 - 06:16 PM | Comment # 1425
None of this has anything to do with the facts of the case.
Sure it does. Someone who now admits that she is a very close friend of Ms. Finch has continually presented her personal opinion as fact, even though her “facts” fly right in the face of the facts presented in court.
livinupriver you are more interested in slinging mud than the topic at hand.
Uhh...no. Take a look at the definition of “mudslinging” - “An attempt to destroy someone’s reputation”. Now - where and when, exactly, did I ever attempt to destroy anyone’s reputation in this thread? Disagreeing with a poster is not synonymous with “mudslinging” - not even if you use the word loosely. In fact, I spoke out *against* the mudslinging that was going on in this thread a day (or two ago). What I’m interested in is the truth - not biased, personal interpretation and representation of someone who has, by all appearances, broken the law.
some of us are here to read intelligent posts not childish fighting
You’re free to stop reading my posts at any time.
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by: justthefacts on March 13, 2009 - 06:41 PM | Comment # 1427
You seem to be very biased as well. If you are here for the truth then stick to it.
I Did just here a rumor from a very reliable source another one of her dogs had it’s back broken in foster care and had to be put down. If this is fact then that makes one broken leg on a dog that was not housed in “crates”, two dogs that were hurt in a fight and now a broken back on another one. You all can go on calling names and trying to discredit one an other but there are much bigger issues here. It makes me sick that these dogs have been hurt and put down in “foster care”. I would like to think that spot would make that info public because I think everyone should know. Has Mrs Finch been notified of this? they are after all her dogs at this point and she should know the real story.
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by: LivinUpriver on March 13, 2009 - 06:48 PM | Comment # 1428
You seem to be very biased as well.
Then by all means, if you could, please provide an example of when I have shown bias in this thread.
If you are here for the truth then stick to it...I Did just here a rumor
Uhh...what??? Your nym is “justthefacts”, you chastise me for an as-of-yet unproven, unnamed show of bias and tell me to stick to the truth, and then you follow it all up with “I just heard a rumor”...???
Good grief.
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by: wipeoutpuppymills on March 13, 2009 - 06:50 PM | Comment # 1429
8 - Some of her dogs are rescues, did you KNOW that ? Or do you even care ?
Those poor rescues, they had no idea they were going to such a horrible place and that they wouldn’t see the light of day or get fed enough food leaving them with their tummies growling. Whether Kris had a litter recently is not the point. The point is that her dogs were in BAD condition! And she had TOO MANY! If you think that is acceptable Cyn Joy, then you are no better than her. I think you must be of like-minds to be defending someone who has been caught keeping her dogs in such unsanitary conditions and found to be lacking proper emotional support besides being emaciated. Did you know that the majority were found emaciated? If you have been to Kris’s home many times, then you must know who Beckett is, the Coton de Tulear. He lived inside of her home in a crate, and the breeder/co-owner was ignorant to the fact that her Coton was being kept in poor condition and crated 18 hours a day. If she would have known, she would have taken him back. Kris claimed that Beckett didn’t have good enough structure to be shown,(although he was shown several times early on and did his share of winning) she blew off the breeder/co-owner, and shaved his coat down. Personally, I would have gotten the dog back right then, but this person was TOO trusting, and fell for Kris’s line. And Kris didn’t pay ONE SINGLE DIME for this Coton who would have normally been $2,800.00. Yes, 5-6 years ago Cotons were considered rare and that is what breeders sold them for. However, this breeder of Beckett gave him to her thinking he would be shown and kept in full coat, and most of all treated as one of the family. How WRONG she was. Kris had another Coton named Hunter, thank God the breeder of that dog had the good sense to get him back after 3 months when she heard how Kris was keeping the dog. This Coton’s name was Hunter and he was kept in a crate with a collar and lead on.(poor boy could have choked) The lead was threaded through the grill of the crate, and whenever Hunter would bark she would grab the lead and yank hard on it, hitting Hunter’s head on the crate door. How would Kris like that done to her? When he came back to the breeder he was so happy. If this breeder didn’t have the excellent instincts that she did, Hunter would have been one of the many suffering, possibly even losing his life. He is a happy dog today living a great life.
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by: justthefacts on March 13, 2009 - 06:57 PM | Comment # 1430
I did say that it was a rumor not Fact I am just asking for conformation from someone that might know (SPOT) they were in court and do know the facts. The question has been brought up on where the coton was and that there are more people involved then just Mrs Finch. Strange that you would focus on just that and not that animals have been hurt in SPOTS care and one that may have been put down.
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by: LivinUpriver on March 13, 2009 - 07:05 PM | Comment # 1431
I did say that it was a rumor not Fact...Strange that you would focus on just that
Your nym is “justthefacts”, you accuse me of not dealing in facts, and then you say “I heard a rumor” - yet, you don’t find any of *that* strange? Okaaaayyyy…
Maybe you should consider changing your nym to “justthefacts(butonlywhenIfeellikeit)”
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by: Crystal Rose on March 13, 2009 - 07:42 PM | Comment # 1435
If there were any injuries to the animals while under custody of the county I would hope they are investigated. A dog spontaniously breaking a leg while walking ill or not does not add up. A dog breaking its back does not happen easly. Dogs fighting and injuring each other? Ok who thought it was a good idea to put unaltered males in proximity to each other with out safegards in place? Why are animals receiving more injuries while in county custody?
And IF the conditions were so poor as reported or gossiped about how come there has been no charges filed? And will there be charges filed on behalf of the dogs injured while in custody? The gate shouldn’t only swing one way.
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by: justthefacts on March 13, 2009 - 08:24 PM | Comment # 1440
So sad that no one “in the know” could step up and verify this info. I went out on a limb and contacted Mrs. Finch (something I bet none of you have done) and she did verify this info. She also had just found out and was very upset. She had no idea what dog had been put down but would like to know. Mrs. Finch and her kids were trying to figure out what dog it might be from SPOT’s court documents but she said that it was very difficult because that info was not very accurate and extremely vague. I do think it is time for SPOT to come out and answer some of these questions, if dogs are getting unjustly injured with one resulting in death, Mrs. Finch and her family deserves to know as well as all of us following this case. A dog does not just break its back or leg, something must have happened.
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by: protectanimals on March 13, 2009 - 08:31 PM | Comment # 1441
Ok who thought it was a good idea to put unaltered males in proximity to each other with out safegards in place? Why are animals receiving more injuries while in county custody?
Hmm. For someone who supposedly has the court testimony, what do you think about the dogs with gangrene who were the source of information from Kris’ vet Alan Williams? It takes a lot for a dog to get gangrene, and the wounds were believed to be fight wounds. Dogs from the barn - per testimony - were in runs/kennels several to a pen. Either that’s all one sex - which would tend to indicate intact males with intact males unsupervised - or it was males and females, which would tend to suggest breeding pairs/trios/etc.
Did the CD include the pictures of the gangrene? Did it reflect that the reporting vet was Kris’ vet, not the ones from the clinic working wtih animal control?
With regard to the Coton, whose name is apparently Bennett (not confirmed, not disagreeing, just not my personal knowledge), isn’t it possible that there’s a reason no puclic information is forthcoming? Perhaps the county has so requested/ordered it? Again, I don’t know about this, but it might stand to reason that if it was part of a future filing or something, there wouldn’t be information released.
As far as injuries aside from the fight that apparently occured in foster care, I have heard that there is an issue with bone density. I heard it was related to poor nutrition, lack of exercise, etc. Again, I am not a vet and have no FACTS that I can cite (not that you all could see them anyhow...), but it is something to consider.
Any nice rebuttal, Livin Upriver - great citations and responses. I mean that honestly, not sarcastically.
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by: LivinUpriver on March 13, 2009 - 08:40 PM | Comment # 1443
As far as injuries aside from the fight that apparently occured in foster care, I have heard that there is an issue with bone density. I heard it was related to poor nutrition, lack of exercise, etc. Again, I am not a vet and have no FACTS that I can cite (not that you all could see them anyhow...), but it is something to consider.
You know...the bone density thing based on nutritional deficeincy is something I was wondering as well. I can certainly see it as a possibility.
Any nice rebuttal, Livin Upriver - great citations and responses. I mean that honestly, not sarcastically.
Thanks ;-)
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by: Crystal Rose on March 13, 2009 - 08:53 PM | Comment # 1449
I have never said I was in court. Unfortuntaly I have to work for a living and cant spend my time sitting in a court house. And no I have not ordered a cd of the proceedings.
This is the first I have heard of gangrene, if it is true again why no charges at this point for not providing medical care? If you know the personality’s of the dogs you can mix them, If you know nothing about the personalitys of the animals you do not mix them with out supervision and safeguards.
Only reports I have seen containing bone density and lack of excersize were in relation to the Sunburg dogs not the Finch dogs. And does that mean any one who feeds there dog alpo or old roy which are full of fillers and garbage should be brought up on neglect charges for poor nutrition? Lets all sit out side of the grocery stores and wall mart and hand out tickets for improper feeding habits and only ones who feed premium brands get passes.........
So are you stating just because they were in the care of the county it is ok for one to break a leg, one to break its back and 2 get injured in a fight as long as the fingers are pointed away from the care givers and back to the original owner of the dog? The owner should be held accountable for things that did not happen in her care but in the care of caregivers and the caregivers get a “get out of jail free” card? The people who are suposably providing “safe” enviroments” for the dogs to be “rehabilitated” in?
Someone please pass me a scuba suit, forget the hip waders, its going to get deep in here
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by: protectanimals on March 13, 2009 - 08:58 PM | Comment # 1452
So are you stating just because they were in the care of the county it is ok for one to break a leg, one to break its back and 2 get injured in a fight as long as the fingers are pointed away from the care givers and back to the original owner of the dog? The owner should be held accountable for things that did not happen in her care but in the care of caregivers and the caregivers get a “get out of jail free” card?
Um. No, but did Kris face charges regarding the gangrene? No. It was simply brought up as rebuttal to any accusation that a fight in foster care is worse than or different than one in owner care. At least the ones in foster care received vet care before they died of gangrene…
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by: Crystal Rose on March 13, 2009 - 09:27 PM | Comment # 1455
Again if the dogs had gangrene why was Kris not brought up on neglect charges for not seeking out medical attention for the injuries? Not seeking medical attention for your animals is a chargable misdimener offence.
And were the animals involved in the fight and any other “foster” dogs removed from the house that the fight happened in? Probably not. Why was the owner of the dogs not immediatly notified her dogs were injured? I don’t know, except to hide the fact they are not much better off then they were before. What about the dogs that are still missing after beeing taking into custody by the county? Where are those dogs? Wandering the streets eating out of garbage cans? How is that better?
Lets put every ones lives and habbits under the giant microscope and see how many people dont have things hiding in there sock drawers.
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by: Jo Roark on March 13, 2009 - 10:26 PM | Comment # 1457
Cyn Joy,
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If there was a dog with a broken back I doubt that SPOT was the reason, I understand that atrophy had set in with some of the dogs from being in crates for so long. Is Beckett one of the casualties? I need to know, I have his half brother..
by: Jo Roark on March 13, 2009 - 10:32 PM | Comment # 1458
I have never said I was in court. Unfortuntaly I have to work for a living and cant spend my time sitting in a court house. And no I have not ordered a cd of the proceedings.
This is the first I have heard of gangrene, if it is true again why no charges at this point for not providing medical care? If you know the personality’s of the dogs you can mix them, If you know nothing about the personalitys of the animals you do not mix them with out supervision and safeguards.
Only reports I have seen containing bone density and lack of excersize were in relation to the Sunburg dogs not the Finch dogs. And does that mean any one who feeds there dog alpo or old roy which are full of fillers and garbage should be brought up on neglect charges for poor nutrition? Lets all sit out side of the grocery stores and wall mart and hand out tickets for improper feeding habits and only ones who feed premium brands get passes.........
So are you stating just because they were in the care of the county it is ok for one to break a leg, one to break its back and 2 get injured in a fight as long as the fingers are pointed away from the care givers and back to the original owner of the dog? The owner should be held accountable for things that did not happen in her care but in the care of caregivers and the caregivers get a “get out of jail free” card? The people who are suposably providing “safe” enviroments” for the dogs to be “rehabilitated” in?
Someone please pass me a scuba suit, forget the hip waders, its going to get deep in here
If they are fed garbage food and not fulfilling the nutritional requirements then they should be brought up on charges.
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by: justthefacts on March 13, 2009 - 10:37 PM | Comment # 1459
Jo
Muscle atrophy for a broken back? I find that hard to believe.SPOT has not come forward and released what dog or dogs have been hurt or put down in their care that was my point. I do feel that they need to make this info public now that the truth is out.
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by: BEMOM on March 13, 2009 - 10:50 PM | Comment # 1460
For the Kris supporters who possibly do not understand how the courts work....as each poster leaves a response as to what issues these dogs have faced, some of you ask the same question..."If this is true, why hasn’t Kris been charged?” There is one and only one reason for this. They are INVESTIGATING the case before bringing formal charges. After an investigation is concluded the prosecuting attorney will then decide which charges will be filed against Kris Finch. She may have gotten several of her dogs back, but she is not off scott free. Notice that there is no date set for their return? With egg on their face for the “mistake” in search warrant for the barn, they are going to probably take their time to make sure that any charges filed will stick. What Kris Finch should be most concerned about is where her children will go should jail time be in her future. Everyone needs to stop arguing, whether you are for or against Ms. Finch. What will be will be. In the mean time there are neglected animals out there that need help. Which ways can we be of service? Donate some food, time, maybe our home so that these poor dogs can know what family is.....
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by: momma Jan on March 13, 2009 - 11:18 PM | Comment # 1463
I was in court!!! the Italian Greyhound’s leg was brought up there!! the dog was NOT loose in the house but in a crate!!undernourished, loss of muscle mass,and NOT exercised apparently-- All these scathing accusations that SPOT might make some money reserves is BS !!! I wish they could/would get a safety net so when a person is caught running a torture chamber for animals, relying on OTHER people to pay for necessities is WRONG --relying on “donations” for necessities is ridiculous ----especially WHEN ALL THE HORROR COULD HAVE BEEN AVOIDED WITH HUMANE behavior from Kris!!!! also a family of 5 cannot take care of 40 dogs--the kids go to school during the day (hopefully) and it was obvious from the pictures that hygiene was NOT one of Kris’s priorities --- remember pictures don’t lie--- when an abused dog is finally rescued the release from fear, stress, and pain often leads to physical/mental problems --Kris.... give up all of your “cash crop” (I’m going by her websight that says puppies are available not her “best friend” saying they each only had 1 litter last year (the dogs NOT Kris or Cyn:):)) .......
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by: Crystal Rose on March 13, 2009 - 11:27 PM | Comment # 1464
If there was evedence enough to take the dogs why isn’t there enough evedence to charge her with? Add that to all the evednce gathered when they searched her home and property and all the evedence presented in court all ready what other evedence is left to gather that has not already been done?
If she is guilty and there are facts to prove it then let the courts decide the punishment. Not the court of personol vendeta and opinion.
And as I have stated before there are many breeders operating in the around here and no one is out on a witch hunt to find them and bring them to “justice”
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by: Jo Roark on March 14, 2009 - 07:10 AM | Comment # 1468
Jo
Muscle atrophy for a broken back? I find that hard to believe.SPOT has not come forward and released what dog or dogs have been hurt or put down in their care that was my point. I do feel that they need to make this info public now that the truth is out.
Muscles support the spine, if the muscles are atrophied then there is no support for the spine.
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by: Crystal Rose on March 14, 2009 - 08:33 AM | Comment # 1472
This brings up another question............
If the dogs were fully examined, and if the full extent of there conditions was known, why would the dogs be allowed or put into a position to further injure themselfs? and couldn’t that be considered neglect or negligence on the part of the caregiver at the time of the injury? And again who is going to be held accountable for those injuries? Lets all blame Kris again when she was not in possession or controll of the animals in any way shape or form when they happend and was not notified when they happend only after the fact.
If her dogs were neglected while in her care then she should be held accountable and if the dogs were neglected and injured in county care then someone should be held accountable.
How would you feel if your best friend fido was in a shelter for taking a walk about the neighborhood and was injured while in the care of animal controll? Would you say oopsies its all my fault fido jumped the fence and walk away?
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by: Jo Roark on March 14, 2009 - 08:49 AM | Comment # 1476
If, in fact, the muscles are atrophied it takes a period time for this to happen. If injuries were caused from this then I don’t think the care takers are to blame. From what I understand some of the dogs were kept in kennels 18 hours a day when they were in Kris’s care.
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by: CynLajoie on March 14, 2009 - 09:08 AM | Comment # 1478
How can one show a dog that has atrophied muscles ? Will you give it a rest.
The dog was fine. SPOT or ACO broke the dogs leg when they “rescued” him because the idiot on the other end of the leash didn’t have a clue. A dog as small as an Italian Greyhound ? Why not just pick it up and put it in a crate ? Why drag it, kicking and screaming, on tiny little legs, to the truck then into a crate ?
Man if I had been there I would have been out there with a video camera taping every single move SPOT and ACO made.
Instead the Police threatened Kris with arrest if she didn’t remain in the house ?
Why ? So she couldn’t see what they were doing to her dogs ?
Disgusting behavrior from people “rescueing” dogs in my books.
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by: LivinUpriver on March 14, 2009 - 09:12 AM | Comment # 1480
If the dogs were fully examined, and if the full extent of there conditions was known, why would the dogs be allowed or put into a position to further injure themselfs? and couldn’t that be considered neglect or negligence on the part of the caregiver at the time of the injury?
Confucius say, “beware of red herring and strawman arguments - both make for big waste of time”.
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by: LivinUpriver on March 14, 2009 - 09:14 AM | Comment # 1481
SPOT or ACO broke the dogs leg when they “rescued” him because the idiot on the other end of the leash didn’t have a clue. A dog as small as an Italian Greyhound ? Why not just pick it up and put it in a crate ? Why drag it, kicking and screaming, on tiny little legs, to the truck then into a crate ?
And your proof for this claim is...?
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by: Crystal Rose on March 14, 2009 - 10:00 AM | Comment # 1484
Only dumb question is an un asked one. And unanswered questions speek volumes and are left up to interpertation.
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by: momma Jan on March 14, 2009 - 10:04 AM | Comment # 1485
I can’t believe the FEW you that say Kris is such a victium and want to go after the rescuers!-the poor rescueteam HADtoDEAL WITH THE STATE THE SUFFERING ANIMALS WERE IN WHEN THEY ARRIVED at Kris’s terror kennel---Cyn, I HOPE you’re dogs do not have to be “dragged, kicking and screaming” from YOUR kennels!!!!!!!!!!!! that is a terrible first indicator- dogs so afraid to come out of their “FILTH” they panic --NORMAL, well adjusted dogs Love their kennels AND coming out of them ---- also, WHAT give Kris the right to have ANY say with regards to the condition of her dogs?? kinda like a serial killer that wants to find out HOW the autospy of his victiums turned out?? I suppose you think the serial killer didn’t give up HIS/HER rights just because he was “caught” --give me a break !!!!
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by: CynLajoie on March 14, 2009 - 10:35 AM | Comment # 1490
livingupriver, your ridiculous comments about Kris’ website are amusing.
Yes it says she has puppies on her site. The date ???? Last year.
It’s called NOT updating your website because you have no puppies.
My word, you just love to twist and bend things to suit your purpose. It’s sad, it really is.
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by: CynLajoie on March 14, 2009 - 10:38 AM | Comment # 1492
As to why she has 44 dogs and rarely breeds for pups ???
That speaks volumes as to what kind of a Kennel she has.
A puppy mill has ALL females, and only a few males. One male can service dozens of females.
Kris has so many males because she “very carefully, and very selectively” crosses the right male to the right female, using confirmation, type, coat, health issues, temperament etc AS HER GUIDE.
And if some of you can’t understand that...well then Im talking to a brick wall.
You know what they say.
STUPID IS FOREVER.
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IGNORANCE CAN BE FIXED.
by: CynLajoie on March 14, 2009 - 10:39 AM | Comment # 1493
wipeoutpuppymills. GET YOUR FACTS straight.
4 dogs OUT of 44 were found to be emaciated.
4........not most !!
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by: CynLajoie on March 14, 2009 - 10:48 AM | Comment # 1495
FACT - No charges have been laid. It’s been 7 weeks people !! and nothing.
FACT - 21 dogs that were seized are returned.
FACT - Italian Greyhounds leg was broken DURING the seizure.
FACT - one litter and 44 dogs does not equal a puppy mill or breeding for profit. If Im not mistaken, Kris still has two pups from that litter that haven’t sold yet. Wow. That’s profit for ya.
FACT - NO dogs would be returned to Kris IF the conditions were so deplorable or any dogs had gangerene. They would just re-issue the warrant and reseize.
FACT - not all of her animals were seized. IF a place is deemed that inhumane for the living conditions for the animals, ALL of the animals are seized. Horses were not seized, cats, dogs, sheep etc.
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by: LivinUpriver on March 14, 2009 - 10:49 AM | Comment # 1496
livingupriver, your ridiculous comments about Kris’ website are amusing.
Yes it says she has puppies on her site. The date ???? Last year.
So then you have just proven that she advertises fraudulently. IOW, she’s not honest.
It’s called NOT updating your website because you have no puppies.
No, it’s called false advertising.
My word, you just love to twist and bend things to suit your purpose. It’s sad, it really is.
Right back-atcha, Cyn.
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by: LivinUpriver on March 14, 2009 - 10:51 AM | Comment # 1497
4 dogs OUT of 44 were found to be emaciated.
That’s four too many, Cyn. But please, just keep talking - every time you do you’re just digging the hole deeper and deeper for your friend, Kris.
You don’t seriously think you’re helping bolster her case, do you?
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by: LivinUpriver on March 14, 2009 - 10:55 AM | Comment # 1499
FACT - No charges have been laid. It’s been 7 weeks people !! and nothing.
Give it time. Prosecuting a case well, effectively, and for a lasting effect takes time.
FACT - Italian Greyhounds leg was broken DURING the seizure.
Got proof of that? An x-ray and a vet’s official statement on this, perhaps?
FACT - one litter and 44 dogs does not equal a puppy mill or breeding for profit. If Im not mistaken, Kris still has two pups from that litter that haven’t sold yet. Wow. That’s profit for ya.
FACT - NO dogs would be returned to Kris IF the conditions were so deplorable or any dogs had gangerene. They would just re-issue the warrant and reseize.
Nope - wrong again. Happens all the time with families being investigated by CPS. Just because there’s a return of the dogs, that doesn’t mean she has been exhonerated. Don’t pull out the vintage champagne so fast, dear.
FACT - not all of her animals were seized. IF a place is deemed that inhumane for the living conditions for the animals, ALL of the animals are seized. Horses were not seized, cats, dogs, sheep etc.
Where in the world do you get your “facts” about U.S. and Washington State law, Cyn?
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by: Jo Roark on March 14, 2009 - 11:11 AM | Comment # 1506
How can one show a dog that has atrophied muscles ? Will you give it a rest.
The dog was fine. SPOT or ACO broke the dogs leg when they “rescued” him because the idiot on the other end of the leash didn’t have a clue. A dog as small as an Italian Greyhound ? Why not just pick it up and put it in a crate ? Why drag it, kicking and screaming, on tiny little legs, to the truck then into a crate ?
Man if I had been there I would have been out there with a video camera taping every single move SPOT and ACO made.
Instead the Police threatened Kris with arrest if she didn’t remain in the house ?
Why ? So she couldn’t see what they were doing to her dogs ?
Disgusting behavrior from people “rescueing” dogs in my books.
If you weren’t there how do you know the dog was dragged kicking and screaming? Why would the dog be kicking and screaming anyway? A normal, healthy, well adjusted dog doesn’t do that.
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by: Jo Roark on March 14, 2009 - 11:14 AM | Comment # 1507
Kris has so many males because she “very carefully, and very selectively” crosses the right male to the right female, using confirmation, type, coat, health issues, temperament etc AS HER GUIDE.
Its conformation, not confirmation.
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by: Jo Roark on March 14, 2009 - 11:15 AM | Comment # 1508
wipeoutpuppymills. GET YOUR FACTS straight.
4 dogs OUT of 44 were found to be emaciated.
4........not most !!
So 4 emaciated dogs is suppose to be ok?
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by: LivinUpriver on March 14, 2009 - 11:16 AM | Comment # 1509
Its conformation, not confirmation
Actually, it’s called a ‘typo’.
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by: Jo Roark on March 14, 2009 - 11:18 AM | Comment # 1511
FACT - No charges have been laid. It’s been 7 weeks people !! and nothing.
FACT - 21 dogs that were seized are returned.
FACT - Italian Greyhounds leg was broken DURING the seizure.
FACT - one litter and 44 dogs does not equal a puppy mill or breeding for profit. If Im not mistaken, Kris still has two pups from that litter that haven’t sold yet. Wow. That’s profit for ya.
FACT - NO dogs would be returned to Kris IF the conditions were so deplorable or any dogs had gangerene. They would just re-issue the warrant and reseize.
FACT - not all of her animals were seized. IF a place is deemed that inhumane for the living conditions for the animals, ALL of the animals are seized. Horses were not seized, cats, dogs, sheep etc.
I thought 28 dogs were going to be returned to her, why has the number changed to 21?
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by: Jo Roark on March 14, 2009 - 11:23 AM | Comment # 1512
Its conformation, not confirmation
Actually, it’s called a ‘typo’.
How would you know? You didn’t type it.
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by: Jo Roark on March 14, 2009 - 11:35 AM | Comment # 1514
This was from the first article, I suspect if there were only 4 emaciated dogs he would have said a few of them were emaciated.
“Veterinarian Peter Brown, who examined about 25 of the Australian Shepherds, testified that many of the dogs he examined were severely emaciated and had severe tooth decay, which can cause pain and serious health conditions”.
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by: momma Jan on March 14, 2009 - 12:05 PM | Comment # 1518
I do know Kris was selling her puppies to employess at Petsmart where she works --I asked if the employee went to Kris’s house and SAW the dogs, kennels, etc. --she replied her dog was a wonderful dog but Kris brought him to the store for her to purchase ---------hummmm—it is a mute point wondering how many males and females there were ---THE POOR DOGS WERE IN HORRIFIC CONDITIONS, SUFFERING UNNECESSARY PAIN (TEETH,GUMS,ETC.),UNSANITARY CONDITIONS(FECES/URINE),--Cyn quit trying to avoid the FACTS !!!! “birds of a feather flock together”—
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by: Skagitonian5705 on March 14, 2009 - 12:37 PM | Comment # 1520
Well Cyn YOUR QUOTE
“Kris has so many males because she “very carefully, and very selectively” crosses the right male to the right female, using confirmation, type, coat, health issues, temperament etc AS HER GUIDE.”
Like I said before what the hell, Kris Finch does not care about the health issues of her dogs. If she truly did, all her dogs would have been found to be healthy, they were not. It is very sad that you are sticking up for her as a kennel owner.You want everyone to quit attacking your friend personally. Then you should quit writting your comments, because all you do is add fuel to fire. Talk about ignorance.
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by: CynLajoie on March 14, 2009 - 02:49 PM | Comment # 1530
Jo Roark says : “Veterinarian Peter Brown, who examined about 25 of the Australian Shepherds, testified that many of the dogs he examined were severely emaciated and had severe tooth decay, which can cause pain and serious health conditions”.
AGAIN a lie. You got that from the Newspaper NOT the Court proceedings. Dr Browns exact words were he had examined 25 and 21 of them were fine.
Hmmmmmmm
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by: LivinUpriver on March 14, 2009 - 02:52 PM | Comment # 1532
AGAIN a lie. You got that from the Newspaper NOT the Court proceedings. Dr Browns exact words were he had examined 25 and 21 of them were fine.
Can you replicate that for us here from the CD?
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by: momma Jan on March 14, 2009 - 02:59 PM | Comment # 1533
Cyn, re read Skagitonian again !!!!!!!!!PLEASE ---(page 15)--I’m beginning to think we’re dealing with a teenager trying to provoke animonsity--maybe you’re a troubled adolosent that enjoys gettin other people concerned --gee what a great life you must have.........like I’ve already said ,"I’m sure you and Kris spend part of the time you talk on the phone telling each other how wonderful the other person is”..........
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by: CynLajoie on March 14, 2009 - 03:10 PM | Comment # 1534
Whatever.
People like you guys that twist stories, yap about things you know nothing about, create your facts, LOL.
It’s sad.
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by: CynLajoie on March 14, 2009 - 03:11 PM | Comment # 1535
We shall see what the Courts decide.
The DECISION to play Judge, Jury and Executioner is NOT for you.
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by: CynLajoie on March 14, 2009 - 03:31 PM | Comment # 1537
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eyjfHjxGxm0&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EWP_wXfkO78&feature=related
Check out those two videos on youtube.
SPCA’s and ACO’s railroad people all the time.
Go to yahoo groups and join a list known as petlaw. It’s an eye opener.
I’ve done PRIVATE rescue for 25 years and it disgusts me what HSUS and their co-horts do to people.
One current case in TN where another chapter of SPOT was involved. The woman had all of her dogs seized and when it went to Court, SPOT actually TESTIFIED on the Breeders behalf. In their opinion there was no reason for this Breeder to lose her dogs. The Courts decided in the Breeders favor YET the County then filed an appeal and it’s been tied up in Court for two years now. The woman has YET to get one of her dogs back even though she WON her case.
I could site you dozens of stories exactly the same.
Emily Diaz is not the Saint some of you are making her out to be. Why did she NOT report Kris in November if the dogs/horses were in such deplorable conditions ? Why wait till Feb ?
WHY is she speaking to people on the phone and giving out details and “her personal opionion” on the situation. Laying charges is none of her business. It’s for the Local PD to decide. Her job is done YET her mouth still runs.
WHY did SPOT attack Kris on their website ??? They are a rescue group. PERIOD. Personal opinion never comes into play. Rescue is FOR THE ANIMALS. Foster homes are spouting off about dogs. That is a clear violation. Any who has even fostered knows that. You shut your mouth about an ongoing case. You foster because you love animals. PERIOD.
Rescue groups run off donations. Donations of time, supplies, money, vet care etc.
THEY don’t hire Lawyers and try to interrupt Court proceedings to have the Judge slap a $24,000. bill onto a person that has had their dogs seized.
AND BTW.........seeing as how Kris got back 21 of her dogs, she doesn’t owe ANYONE anything for those 21 dogs. The County of Skagit DOES. They by law, seized the dogs, kept them in foster care, then realized they made an error and returned them.
You think SPOT will sue Skagit County ?
One dogs leg broke (possibly his back from the gossip).
Two dogs injured in a fight while in foster care.Do the math people !!
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by: Jo Roark on March 14, 2009 - 03:42 PM | Comment # 1542
CynLajoie,
You have expressed repeatedly that you are a very good friend of Kris Finches so it surprises me that you seemed perplexed when I asked about Beckett. Surely, if you are such a good friend you would also be aware that she has or had a Coton de Tulear, she has been in possession of the dog for about 5 years. Surely you can tell the difference between the predominately black Aussies and a pure white Coton. The only thing I can surmise is that you have never even been to Kris Finches or at least not in the last 5 years. Now, if you are such a good friend of hers certainly she would have expressed her joy when she won a “Best In Show” with Beckett.
This is on the front of Kris’s website:
We also have a Coton de Tulear, BIS Winner, Multi Ch. Windsong’s Lord BeckettAnother question: How many emaciated dogs can a breeder have and still remain reputable??
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by: Lee_USA on March 14, 2009 - 03:49 PM | Comment # 1543
Cyn....since you are in Canada, nothing you claim to know is first hand knowledge.
Your attitude towards the SPCA is a well known pro-breeder stance. Reputable breeders want backyard breeders curtailed as they pump out millions of unwanted puppies every year and don’t care about health issues or bettering the breeds.
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by: LivinUpriver on March 14, 2009 - 03:49 PM | Comment # 1544
We shall see what the Courts decide.
Yep. Isn’t that a given?
The DECISION to play Judge, Jury and Executioner is NOT for you.
Nor for you. In light of that, one is forced to wonder why you keep trying to play judge and jury of SPOT and Emily Diaz and Skagit County and the posters here who don’t see things they way you do (and on and on, ad infinitum)…
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by: wipeoutpuppymills on March 14, 2009 - 04:01 PM | Comment # 1545
Whatever.
People like you guys that twist stories, yap about things you know nothing about, create your facts, LOL.
It’s sad.That is the best you can come up with, CynLajoie? Jo Roark and I have both asked you about the Coton named Beckett. You have totally ignored our posts. I know why, and it is not a pretty story, and IT WILL come out for all to hear eventually. Kris should be very afraid for this particular information to come out. The records WILL be made public. Whatever Kris has been through in her personal life has nothing to do with being abusive,irresponsible, and neglectful with her animals. Plenty of dog people get divorced, it is not EVER an excuse to abuse animals. If you can’t afford to feed them, then you place them in good homes where they can afford to properly vet them, feed them and give them the attention they deserve. She has no excuse because it has gone on for such a long time.
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by: LivinUpriver on March 14, 2009 - 04:10 PM | Comment # 1547
SPCA’s and ACO’s railroad people all the time.
And you came to this conclusion based on something you saw on YouTube? Okaaay...
One current case in TN where another chapter of SPOT was involved.
Pretty sure SPOT is a Skagit County organization and not a local chapter of a nationwide organization.
Emily Diaz is not the Saint some of you are making her out to be.
How in the world could you possibly know first-hand what the reputation of a county employee in a country you don’t even reside in is?
Why did she NOT report Kris in November if the dogs/horses were in such deplorable conditions ?
I don’t know - why not ask her?
WHY is she speaking to people on the phone and giving out details and “her personal opionion” on the situation.
And you know this first-hand how...?
WHY did SPOT attack Kris on their website ???
I don’t know - why not ask them?
They are a rescue group. PERIOD. Personal opinion never comes into play.
Never? Really? And you know this because...?
Foster homes are spouting off about dogs. That is a clear violation.
If you’re convinced that is the truth, then make a formal complaint - don’t belly-ache about it in an online forum.
You foster because you love animals. PERIOD.
Now you’re contending that the people who are fostering the dogs don’t love animals? How could you possibly know what those fostering the animals think about loving or not loving animals?
Rescue groups run off donations. Donations of time, supplies, money, vet care etc.
Yes, you’ve said this before ad nauseum. You’re starting to sound like a broken record, you know.
THEY don’t hire Lawyers and
<snip> Good heavens - give it a rest, already.
seeing as how Kris got back 21 of her dogs, she doesn’t owe ANYONE anything for those 21 dogs. The County of Skagit DOES.
<another snip> Once again, you know how things are done in a country and state and county you don’t live in because...?
Do the math people !!
You think this whole thing is about math? (maybe this is why you are so confused about how this whole issue is being handled - Lol! ;-)
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by: CynLajoie on March 14, 2009 - 04:10 PM | Comment # 1548
Jo I never commented on Beckett because I don’t know the Cotons by name. I know most of her Aussies names. I have Aussies. Just like the Italian Greyhounds. Not a clue what the two boys are called.
Why don’t you call Kris yourself and ask her about Beckett ?
I would surmise that he was one of the ones that was in the house, in a crate and has not been returned to her. Many times she made reference to the Cotons and they were in the house. So maybe you should call SPOT and see ?
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by: momma Jan on March 14, 2009 - 04:11 PM | Comment # 1549
Emily Diaz and the HSUS do wonderful things for animals!!! Emily has been very civil during this whole travisty!!!! There’s NOT enough good things to say about the HSUS !!! the big shame is that these people and organizations have to put up with your(Cyn,Bulldog, etc.) insane tirades---
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by: skagit4life on March 14, 2009 - 04:26 PM | Comment # 1550
CynLajoie was is sad and very sicking is that people like you find it ok for and I quote “4 dogs OUT of 44 were found to be emaciated” even 1 out of 44 dogs in not acceptable. WOW I’m feeling very very sorry for any animals that your might have. ANY human in their right mind would be outraged at even one animal being found emaciated. Your lack of compassion for these animals is very evident in your rambling postings.
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by: CynLajoie on March 14, 2009 - 04:57 PM | Comment # 1551
SPCA is not against JUST puppy mills and back yard Breeders. THEY are against ALL purebred dogs, regardless if they come Ethical Breeders or not. They want ALL dogs spayed/neutered.
Do you know they even have a bill they are trying to enforce about chickens being “forced” to lay large egss is cruel ?
What about their wonderful stunt to eliminate most of the horse slaughter houses. So now instead of being slaughtered locally, they are shipped out of state to other legal slaughter houses. Now keep in mind these horses are now crammed into tractor trailers, some double deckers, and by the time they get to where they are going, they are bitten, broken legs, some dead.
Is that better ?
SPCA and HSUS at it’s finest, I tell ya.
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by: CynLajoie on March 14, 2009 - 05:01 PM | Comment # 1552
Your attitude towards the SPCA is a well known pro-breeder stance. Reputable breeders want backyard breeders curtailed as they pump out millions of unwanted puppies every year and don’t care about health issues or bettering the breeds.
Reputable ? What’s your definition vs back yard breeder ? Im just curious.
I health test all of my dogs. So does Kris. I breed selective and very rarely. So does Kris. I have a very stringent contract and it clearly states the pup/dog is my responsibly for life. If for ANY reason the person can’t keep the dog it is to come back to me.
And one up on me, Kris shows her dogs to Championships. I don’t as we only have 4 rare breed shows up here in Canada per year within a 10 hour drive of me.
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by: Jo Roark on March 14, 2009 - 05:03 PM | Comment # 1553
Jo I never commented on Beckett because I don’t know the Cotons by name. I know most of her Aussies names. I have Aussies. Just like the Italian Greyhounds. Not a clue what the two boys are called.
Why don’t you call Kris yourself and ask her about Beckett ?
I would surmise that he was one of the ones that was in the house, in a crate and has not been returned to her. Many times she made reference to the Cotons and they were in the house. So maybe you should call SPOT and see ?
She had only one Coton so the only one she could have referenced was him. Oh I take that back, she had another one, Becketts half brother but she only had him for 3 months. I now have the 1/2 brother after the breeder had taken him back from Kris. I highly doubt that Kris would be willing to talk to me, she was pretty mad. I will call SPOT.
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by: CynLajoie on March 14, 2009 - 05:05 PM | Comment # 1554
liveinupriver, you are so daft it’s scary.
Once again, you know how things are done in a country and state and county you don’t live in because...?
Duh......I think it’s pretty basic. The Skagit County Courts ruled that they were in error and the warrant (for the outbuildings) was invalid therefore the seizure of the dogs is invalid.
THEREFORE.....the bill goes to Skagit County, not the Breeder.
My better half is a Police Officer. I think I know about the law and that one is pretty much a given regardless of WHERE YOU LIVE !
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by: LivinUpriver on March 14, 2009 - 05:06 PM | Comment # 1555
I health test all of my dogs. So does Kris. I breed selective and very rarely. So does Kris. I have a very stringent contract and it clearly states the pup/dog is my responsibly for life. If for ANY reason the person can’t keep the dog it is to come back to me.
And one up on me, Kris shows her dogs to Championships. I don’t as we only have 4 rare breed shows up here in Canada per year within a 10 hour drive of me
That’s all just wonderful and heartwarming. Really.
Now, what say we go back to reality and the emaciated dogs that were seized from Ms. Finch and the filthy and inhumane conditions they were living in...hmmm?
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by: LivinUpriver on March 14, 2009 - 05:10 PM | Comment # 1556
the bill goes to Skagit County, not the Breeder.
That would depend on how the law reads, wouldn’t it?
My better half is a Police Officer. I think I know about the law and that one is pretty much a given regardless of WHERE YOU LIVE !
If your “better half” *is* in law enforcement then your better half understands how laws vary from country to country, province to provice, state to state, right?
How come *you* don’t know that?
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by: Jo Roark on March 14, 2009 - 05:11 PM | Comment # 1557
Do you know they even have a bill they are trying to enforce about chickens being “forced” to lay large egss is cruel ?
If these chickens have a difficult time laying these eggs, if it causes them pain then it should be outlawed. Animals shouldn’t have to suffer and there is no reason why people can’t be satisfied with medium sized eggs.
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by: momma Jan on March 14, 2009 - 05:48 PM | Comment # 1561
HSUS gets plenty of donations from me to STOP the transfer of horses out of the country for slaughter (we’ve closed down the USA slaughter plants)-In fact it’s illegal to transport horses out of the country for slaughter now --- -Cyn you must delight in knowing that when a horse is taken to Canada or Mexico they ram the horse in a stall and stab it in the neck until they hit the spinal cord so the horse can no longer hold itself up THEN they attempt to kill it !!!! As for the chickens -you could care less if a larger egg tears the sphincter muscles and causes extreme pain-- you have just shown your true colors --I don’t believe YOU have another half --I am going to control myself in stating what I really think of you --COURSE the more uneducated a person the more they don’t consider other beings --YOU DON’T SEEM TO CONSIDER ANY ANIMAL AS HAVING ANY RIGHTS --COURSE THAT COMES FROM THE “trash” mentality --go live in your own filth--are you also on welfare like your other “dear friend” has been ?? Have the government support you and then scream to high heaven when they expect you to follow a few HUMANE laws --My Canadian friends are so embarassed by you and your mouth!!!!!!!!!!
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by: skagit4life on March 14, 2009 - 06:13 PM | Comment # 1564
Cynlajoie
Since you are from CANADA here is the CANADIAN definition of “backyard breeders”The back yard breeder is the single greatest cause of pet overpopulation. Back yard breeders usually do not have bad intentions, but the results of back yard breeding are devastating.
The majority of homeless or abandoned dogs come from this category in many popular breeds and mixes, they are often destroyed in pounds. Most are sold locally through newspaper ads - the responsibility ends when the purchaser’s taillights disappear from sight.
Many back yard breeders do not have the knowledge to properly raise a healthy, socialized litter, or to help the new owner with any problems that might arise.
Back yard breeders may act on a desire to make extra money, or simply out of ignorance. Sometimes back yard breeders will breed so “their children can experience the miracle of birth”, or they mistakenly believe “every dog should have one litter.” They may think their dog is so cute, he/she would make wonderful puppies, with little or no thought for the homes to which their puppies will go. Other back yard breeders see how much money legitimate breeders charge for pups and figure they could make some “easy money” too. Or, a back yard breeder may have a completely unplanned litter by accident.
Back yard breeders usually bring two breeding animals together regardless of their quality. They are not interested in scientific breeding. Their aim is to fulfill a personal need or goal, not to improve the breed and bring excellent quality dogs to the world. Since breed excellence is generally unimportant, the breeding dogs generally will not have been tested for genetic and health problems.
The parents likely have not been screened for health problems
Puppies usually are not sold with contracts and no future support to the buyer
The breeders are not in it for the long haul
They will be working on new personal objectives in five years when your pet has a problem and you need help.
Although you might pay less for the breed of your choice from a back yard breeder, it’s almost a given that in the long run, you’ll pay a good deal more in vet bills and perhaps emotional bills (if the dog has to be euthanized due to a health or temperament problem), than you would from a reputable breeder
Really no different from the AMERICAN definition of “backyard breeders”
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by: Lee_USA on March 14, 2009 - 09:15 PM | Comment # 1578
SPCA is not against JUST puppy mills and back yard Breeders. THEY are against ALL purebred dogs, regardless if they come Ethical Breeders or not. They want ALL dogs spayed/neutered
Balderdash.
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by: Crystal Rose on March 14, 2009 - 09:16 PM | Comment # 1579
wow seams like there is a couple people with personal issues with Kris that are using this to bring them into a public forum
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by: Lee_USA on March 14, 2009 - 09:16 PM | Comment # 1580
I breed selective and very rarely. So does Kris.
More horse pucky. Ms. Finch bred one of her females heat after heat resulting in 22 puppies in 2 years.
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by: Jo Roark on March 14, 2009 - 10:10 PM | Comment # 1582
Most breeders may have one or two males and then use outside males if they need them for another lineage. I just can’t understand why kris has so many males. I know kris likes to go to dog shows but how many dogs can one person show?
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by: Jo Roark on March 14, 2009 - 10:40 PM | Comment # 1584
More horse pucky. Ms. Finch bred one of her females heat after heat resulting in 22 puppies in 2 years.
Sounds like 4 breedings back to back, hmmm..
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by: Lee_USA on March 15, 2009 - 07:36 AM | Comment # 1592
Actually it was three successful breedings in two years. One litter was 9 puppies...they were whelped in April. Then another litter of 6 pups arrived in November of that same year. The previous year a litter of 10 puppies was born to that female. So the correct number is 25 puppies in 2 years from that one female.
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by: Jo Roark on March 15, 2009 - 08:16 AM | Comment # 1594
Was it the beginning of the previous year and did she skip a cycle between the first and second litters? If she did skip a cycle then its ok. You see, many breeders breed 2 litters back to back skip a cycle and breed on the following cycle. Now if she had 3 litters in succession that would not be good on the female
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by: Crystal Rose on March 15, 2009 - 10:28 AM | Comment # 1600
Question?
If SPOT is so involved in finding “forever homes” for the animals in there care how come they have none of the Sunburg dogs are listed as up for adoption? While NOHA and the Humane society have them listed and have already placed many of them in homes? Granted the puppies born while in there would not be old enough yet but soon should be. And don’t say it is all because of health issues or special needs because I know the humane soiety and old dog haven have placed special needs dogs already in careing homes.
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by: LivinUpriver on March 15, 2009 - 10:39 AM | Comment # 1602
Question?
If SPOT is so involved in finding “forever homes” for the animals in there care how come they have none of the Sunburg dogs are listed as up for adoption?
Answer: Why don’t you ask SPOT?
Question: Or would you rather just speculate and assume and make up your own answers?
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by: CynLajoie on March 15, 2009 - 11:18 AM | Comment # 1605
Skagit4life
CynLajoie was is sad and very sicking is that people like you find it ok for and I quote “4 dogs OUT of 44 were found to be emaciated” even 1 out of 44 dogs in not acceptable.
You’re forgetting that everyone has a different definition of emaciated. There is a scale from 1 - 5. Did the Vet actually mention what number those 4 dogs scored ? No he did NOT. 1 or 2 is emaciated. Again conjecture on the Vets part.
In Court did they have pictures of the “emaciated dogs”
NO they did not. They forgot to take pictures. Hmmmmmmmm
Accuse Kris of something BUT don’t show the proof in Court.
Am I the only one that sees something fishy here ?
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by: CynLajoie on March 15, 2009 - 11:21 AM | Comment # 1606
Livingupriver
Now, what say we go back to reality and the emaciated dogs that were seized from Ms. Finch and the filthy and inhumane conditions they were living in...hmmm?
Now think about that comment of yours for a second. If the animals were that filthy do you NOT think CPS would have removed Kris’ children ?
THINK !!
Fecal matter in the house where young children are ? I think not. And the raid was the first thing in the morning and everyone was home. AS a Breeder or even a dog owner. If your dogs have an accident during the night, first thing you do when you get up is clean it.
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by: CynLajoie on March 15, 2009 - 11:23 AM | Comment # 1607
I’ve used my REAL name .... how about you guys out yourselves ?
I know for a fact quite a few of you are other Breeders that have shown against Kris and lost, big time.
Sour grapes ?
Come on........tell us your real names.
One of you is even masquarding as Kris’ Mom. How sad.
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by: CynLajoie on March 15, 2009 - 11:27 AM | Comment # 1608
Laws vary from State to State, Country to Country but basic common sense will answer your question.
Hypothetical situation. If I am driving down the road and I get pulled over and arrested because the Police “think” I am someone else. I am detained, my car is impounded. After 24 hours they release me. You think Im paying the impound fees on my car ? Who do you think is responsible for my car being impounded in the first place ?
Same deal for this seizure. 21 dogs were seized on a bad warrant. Court determined this.
Who owes SPOT boarding fees ? Not the Breeder. The County does !
If they want the money I guarantee they will have to sue.
Im sure though, the way SPOT is run, they will go after Kris in Court first. When the lose that, they will probably drop the wholet thing.
It is a rescue groups descretion if they want to get involved. Maybe next time SPOT will make sure ACO has all their ducks in a row before they get involved.
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by: Crystal Rose on March 15, 2009 - 11:28 AM | Comment # 1609
I’m not speculating or making asumptions im putting up a question for people to think on and im sure at least one member of spot is monitoring the postings
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by: LivinUpriver on March 15, 2009 - 11:30 AM | Comment # 1610
I know for a fact quite a few of you are other Breeders that have shown against Kris and lost, big time.
Since you don’t know the names of the majority of people in here, how could you *possibly* “know [that] for a fact”?
The *fact* is that you can’t possibly “know [that] for a fact”.
Sour grapes ?
Your desperation (and obsessive/perseverative nature) is showing.
Come on........tell us your real names.
Now you’re bullying others to use their real names here? I thought you knew “for a fact” who we all are?
Oy vey.
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by: LivinUpriver on March 15, 2009 - 11:33 AM | Comment # 1611
Laws vary from State to State, Country to Country but basic common sense will answer your question.
*BEEEEP*!!! Sorry, wrong answer (but thanks for playing ;-)
You said that because your “better half” is in law enforcement that you already know the laws here because they are they same as where you are.
(your parting gifts will be available backstage before you leave - enjoy the silver serving set from Michael C. Fina and Company...)
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by: CynLajoie on March 15, 2009 - 11:42 AM | Comment # 1612
Check out the stats on SPCA. It’s mind boggling.
They STILL claim to be a non profit organization YET last year they made of 16 milliion dollars. Hmmmmmmm
Now keep in mind, they don’t run ANY shelters.
No rescues.They are “affiliated” with 4 animal santuaries.
They dont run spay/neuter programs.
EACH SPCA is individually run and runs on donations. Im talking the big boys, not your local branch.
When you send a donation to SPCA or HSUS, it goes to them. It doesn’t trickle down to you local shelter.
They go public with disgusting raids to get donations, then take the money and run.
If you want to help animals, donate DIRECTLY to your local shelter or rescue.
Make sure the money goes where it is supposed to go.
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by: skagit4life on March 15, 2009 - 01:08 PM | Comment # 1619
You’re forgetting that everyone has a different definition of emaciated. There is a scale from 1 - 5. Did the Vet actually mention what number those 4 dogs scored ? No he did NOT. 1 or 2 is emaciated. Again conjecture on the Vets part.
Wow you are one sick sick person! Now your saying that there are “scales of emaciation..doesn’t really matter!! “1 or 2 is emaciated” you really need to get your facts straight just a few posts back you stated with fact that 4 out of 44 dogs were found emaciated. 1 or 2 is still NOT ACCEPTABLE!!! Oh I forgot to you it is normal for that to happen SHAME ON YOU!!!
EMACIATED: Thin or haggard, especially from hunger or disease.
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by: LivinUpriver on March 15, 2009 - 01:27 PM | Comment # 1620
Now your saying that there are “scales of emaciation..doesn’t really matter!! “1 or 2 is emaciated” you really need to get your facts straight just a few posts back you stated with fact that 4 out of 44 dogs were found emaciated. 1 or 2 is still NOT ACCEPTABLE!!! Oh I forgot to you it is normal for that to happen SHAME ON YOU!!!
EMACIATED: Thin or haggard, especially from hunger or disease.
The statement I find amusing from her is, “conjecture on the Vets part”. “Conjecture”? A licensed veterinarian is going to risk his license to practice by making a statement of conjecture rather than a statement of fact from direct assessment? Yeah - riiiight.
Every time Cynthia posts, she digs herself into another hole and brings her “friend”, Ms. Finch in with her. I wonder if statements made in here could be used in a court of law? Hmmmm....
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by: CynLajoie on March 15, 2009 - 02:06 PM | Comment # 1629
skagit for life.
Wow you are one sick sick person! Now your saying that there are “scales of emaciation..doesn’t really matter!! “1 or 2 is emaciated” you really need to get your facts straight just a few posts back you stated with fact that 4 out of 44 dogs were found emaciated.
Wow english eludes you doesn’t it. The body scale is
1 - near death, walking skeleton.
2 - emaciated
3 - thin
4 - lean
5 - adequate body fat.When Dr Brown used the word “emaciated” he did NOT give a number to go with it so by definition, it was “his opinion” and his choice to use the word emaciated. I’ve emailed him and asked him what number. NO reply. Surprise surprise.
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by: CynLajoie on March 15, 2009 - 02:07 PM | Comment # 1630
There are legal terms in reference to Animal seizures for a REASON.
Dr. Brown should have used the proper terminoligy in Court. He’s a professional.
SPCA/HSUS made UP the SCALE !
USE IT THEN.
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by: CynLajoie on March 15, 2009 - 02:10 PM | Comment # 1632
Example - My Sister thinks my horse is 200 - 300 lbs underweight and complains about it all the time.
I think he’s fine and so does my Vet.
In her words he’s emaciated.
That’s “her opinion”.
4 out of 44 emaciated is Dr Brown’s OPINION with no PHOTOS and no scale to back it up.
THINK people.
What kind of a professional goes into Court for a animal seizure case based on body condition and has NO photos of the “emaciated” dogs ?
If you can’t see past the fact that Kris had 44 dogs, then you are blind to the reality of this whole case.
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by: LivinUpriver on March 15, 2009 - 02:13 PM | Comment # 1633
When Dr Brown used the word “emaciated” he did NOT give a number to go with it so by definition, it was “his opinion” and his choice to use the word emaciated.
Yes - amazingly enough, those who hold the title “doctor”, have been through extensive training, internships, testing, licensure, and various other types of scrutiny to be allowed to call themselves “doctor” and give a medical *opinion*. Do they do it differently in Canada? Is that why you are having trouble with the concept of medical *opinion*?
I’ve emailed him and asked him what number. NO reply. Surprise surprise
And you believe he’s obligated to reply to you because...?
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by: LivinUpriver on March 15, 2009 - 02:14 PM | Comment # 1634
Example - My Sister thinks my horse is 200 - 300 lbs underweight and complains about it all the time.
I think he’s fine and so does my Vet.
In her words he’s emaciated.
That’s “her opinion”.
4 out of 44 emaciated is Dr Brown’s OPINION with no PHOTOS and no scale to back it up.
And your sister received her doctorate in veterinary medicine when and where...?
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by: Jo Roark on March 15, 2009 - 03:16 PM | Comment # 1639
CynLajoie,
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I am using my real name, my sister was a professional handler and she has shown my dogs in the ring against Kris. Sometimes we would win and sometimes Kris would win and I have congratulated Kris on her wins, no sour grapes here. She knows who I am..
by: Jo Roark on March 15, 2009 - 03:20 PM | Comment # 1641
skagit for life.
Wow you are one sick sick person! Now your saying that there are “scales of emaciation..doesn’t really matter!! “1 or 2 is emaciated” you really need to get your facts straight just a few posts back you stated with fact that 4 out of 44 dogs were found emaciated.
Wow english eludes you doesn’t it. The body scale is
1 - near death, walking skeleton.
2 - emaciated
3 - thin
4 - lean
5 - adequate body fat.When Dr Brown used the word “emaciated” he did NOT give a number to go with it so by definition, it was “his opinion” and his choice to use the word emaciated. I’ve emailed him and asked him what number. NO reply. Surprise surprise.
If the vet said emaciated then it would have to be #2, just slightly below near death, although not quite dead.
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by: margatuti on March 15, 2009 - 03:47 PM | Comment # 1643
CynLajoie
Wow english eludes you doesn’t it. The body scale is
1 - near death, walking skeleton.
2 - emaciated
3 - thin
4 - lean
5 - adequate body fat.
If you refer to this link (http://www.animalsheltering.org/resource_library/magazine_articles/jul_aug_1998/body_condition.pdf) it explains how body condition combined with weather, housing, and standard of care determine an animal’s overall situation. I don’t know that this exact scale is the one used here – but it’s a good example of how multiple factors are involved in assessments.
Fecal matter in the house where young children are ? I think not. And the raid was the first thing in the morning and everyone was home. AS a Breeder or even a dog owner. If your dogs have an accident during the night, first thing you do when you get up is clean it.
You keep on making assessments on the conditions of the dogs/property based on whether an agency has taken what you consider to be appropriate actions against Kris – in what you consider to be a timely fashion. It doesn’t work that way – and you should know that as your “better half” is a law enforcement officer.
Speaking in general terms – not about this case specifically – even with a stack of evidence a thorough investigation must be done before charges are brought. Sometimes a case is affected by a technicality – like an improper search warrant. Getting by on a technicality doesn’t make a person innocent. Sometimes cases are dropped because prosecutors decide they can’t make a case that will hold up in court. Again – that doesn’t make a person innocent.
As far as feces is concerned… If someone’s situation is such that waking up each morning to “accidents” in the house is normal – something is wrong – unless you’re talking about a ##### with puppies in the whelping box. And that’s way different than “accidents” in the house. But keep on making those excuses…
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by: CynLajoie on March 15, 2009 - 04:58 PM | Comment # 1644
7 weeks to lay charges is ridiculous, I dont care where you live.
It’s been to Court already THREE times !
Where is the logic in that ?
They were in Court this last time to arguing the case against Kris Finch.
STILL no charges have been laid.
I realize some things are different in the US then in Canada but that is basic law.
You don’t go to Court to fight charges when NONE have been laid !
I think it’s time for the Skagit County PD to get off their butts and make up their minds about it. Lay charges or return the remaining 12 dogs.
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by: Jo Roark on March 15, 2009 - 04:58 PM | Comment # 1645
CynLajoie,
You say you are using your real name. How would we know? You defend Kris even though you can’t possibly know the condition of her kennels at the time the animals were taken from her, since you reside in Canada. You would have us believe there is a big conspiracy with the dog agencies, the prosecutor, the vet, the people caring for her emaciated dogs, the people that have called in complained and the newspaper. Evidently, CPS had taken her kids away because of the feces in the house that needed to be cleaned up. Are they involved in the conspiracy against Kris as well? You have a whole lot of knowledge of what goes on here even though you claim to be far away. All very suspicious..Definition of emaciated:
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American Heritage Dictionary
To make or become extremely thin, especially as a result of starvation.
by: CynLajoie on March 15, 2009 - 05:02 PM | Comment # 1646
Jo Roark says
If the vet said emaciated then it would have to be #2, just slightly below near death, although not quite dead.
Now, once again, you’re assuming.
THAT is why I tried to contact Dr Brown and get his response.
The example WAS to show, one person’s definition of emaciated is another’s definition of lean.
I personally know of one Breeder of Aussies that has obese dogs. She thinks they are in fine shape. It’s disgusting. These dogs waddle they are so fat. Is that healthy ? Not at all.
My Stud when he’s breeding is terribly thin. Reason ? He focusing only on breeding and nothing else. He barely eats enough to keep him alive for 2 - 3 weeks when a girl comes in season. Some dogs are just like that. Some females after giving birth and while nursing are down right scary thin. Can you do anything about it ? Nope, other then the basics. Feed her high protein, and high fat, some BARF and wait for her to wean the pups.
Im not saying this was the case with any of Kris’ dogs. I have no idea. Im just stating fact that I know.
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by: Crystal Rose on March 15, 2009 - 05:12 PM | Comment # 1649
Question? where is the proof that cps removed the children from the home? For that to happen the child/children have to be in imediate danger, or a documented history of unsolvable issues. Cps does not just walk into a house and snatch a child. And It would also involve hearings and court dates in the family courts which have not happend.
So unless someone has proof of cps involvement besided hearsay and rumors ...............leave the kids out of grown up bickering.
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by: etbmfa on March 15, 2009 - 05:32 PM | Comment # 1650
WOW!! I haven’t seen this much lynch mob mentality since the last time I watched a western movie. Did all of these people who are so ready to “hang ‘em high” actually witness this “abuse” first hand? Did they all go on this person’s property? Must have been a very busy place. Are they all experts in animal husbandry? I didn’t know there were that many “trained experts” in the country. Of course if you take away the instant experts trained by the animal “rights” whackos there would only be a handful of true “experts” left.
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What in heaven’s name ever happened to the principle of “INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY” in this country? Maybe people should take a step back and let those who are actually “trained” in caring for the WELFARE of multiple animals work on this. Keep in mind every time you allow someone else’s Constitutional rights to be trampled on and taken away you are saying you wouldn’t mind if your rights were next. Me, I have a problem with CONVICTION by NEWSPAPER.
by: momma Jan on March 15, 2009 - 05:37 PM | Comment # 1652
ETBMFA --- I have CONVICTION by court evidence--pictures--and expert testimony-- the newspaper just contained the facts—
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by: Crystal Rose on March 15, 2009 - 05:54 PM | Comment # 1653
Dosent someone have to be charged with a crime to be convicted?
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by: CynLajoie on March 15, 2009 - 06:24 PM | Comment # 1655
I find it so entertaining how so many of you ASSUME to know me, who I am, what I am or anything about me ?
I’ve been involved in Puppy Mill raids.
I’ve been involved in changing local Bylaws governing dogs.
I’m actively involved in stiffer fines and jail time for acts of animal cruelty.BUT I do hate the SPCA/HSUS/PETA and any other organization that “pretends” to be in it for the animals.
I have spent thousands of my own money in the last 30 years, rescuing, spaying, neutering. D
o I ask for a dime for an “adoption” fee ? Nope. Does anyone give me a break on Vet services ? Donate money ? Donate dog food ? Supplies ? NOPE. All out of my own pocket.And NOW because of organizations like HSUS/SPCA/PETA I won’t do rescue anymore, for the last two years.
I almost lost every animal I own because of a rescue horse I had that was injured and emaciated. I have Vet papers to show he had been examined. He had good quality hay, sweet feed, vitamins, fresh water, green pasture, shelter etc and I STILL had to fight our local ACO. She wrote me up because one of my dogs had knocked her water bowl over and had no water. She even threatened to take my son’s guinea pig because there was fecal matter in it’s cage. You ever see a rodent cage with no fecal matter ? She threatened to take my 15 year old Papillon that had almost no teeth (a puppy mill rescue). And it goes on and on.
The only reason I didn’t lose all of my animals is I refused to comply to her insane demands. I know my rights. I know the law. She had no right to threaten me with anything.
It was all “HER OPINION” and that’s the problem. The laws regarding animals are too vague. They leave it wide open to conjecture and opinion.
IF they want to seize animals, they have to make their CASE based on laws. Not opinions.
What’s offensive and intolerable to one might be acceptable to another.
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by: CynLajoie on March 15, 2009 - 06:30 PM | Comment # 1656
What does it matter if I live in Canada ? You live in Skagit. Have you been to her home ? Have YOU seen her Kennels ? NO.
So you’re telling me to shut up and stop making assumptions. How about you take your own advice ? You’re in the exact same boat.
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by: CynLajoie on March 15, 2009 - 06:37 PM | Comment # 1658
Forget what the newspapers say. Misquotes and fabrication to sell copies.
Are you that naive because if you do I have a bridge in Brooklyn for ya. Good price too.
FACT - Vet said 4 dogs out of 44 were emaciated.
FACT - Vet/ACO/SPOT nor the Police had photos to back that claim up.
Think about that for a minute.
They should have not only had photos but VIDEO of the raid as well.
PROFESSINALS ? Amateurs is more like it.
They had pictures of the Sunberg raid, the pens, the dogs. Why not Kris’ emaciated dogs ? Maybe because they weren’t emaciated ?
As well, read up on dental disease. 80% of all dogs over the age of 4 have it.
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by: CynLajoie on March 15, 2009 - 06:38 PM | Comment # 1659
Make that Professionals (typo)
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by: CynLajoie on March 15, 2009 - 06:41 PM | Comment # 1660
And to the tree huggers who want chickens to stop being forced to lay large eggs, all dogs and cats to sleep on a couch every night.
How many animals do you kill every year ?
Bugs ? Ants ? Mosquitoes ? Flies ?
Where does it end ??
Maybe we should reduce the speeding limit on highways to 30 so less bugs will get splattered on windshields every year OR maybe we should all be forced to have huge gaudy bug deflectors ?
And no killing flies in the house or mosquitoes. WE should have to trap them alive and release them outside.
OMG...........fishing.......lets outlaw that. Ewwww hooking them with a vicious barb of steel by the mouth and yanking them out of the water to die from lack of water, or worse, hit on the head with a bat ?
Oh I can’t do it anymore.
Maybe I should just die so the bugs can eat me......yah that it. My death will be good for the bugs. Oh better yet. Lay me out in a field somewhere so not only the bugs can get me but the varmits too.
WHERE DOES IT END ???
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by: CynLajoie on March 15, 2009 - 06:43 PM | Comment # 1661
http://www.ncraoa.com/articles/AR/HSUS_ItsNotAboutAnimalShelters-Oliver.pdf
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by: CynLajoie on March 15, 2009 - 06:50 PM | Comment # 1662
Chrystal Rose
Question? where is the proof that cps removed the children from the home? For that to happen the child/children have to be in imediate danger, or a documented history of unsolvable issues. Cps does not just walk into a house and snatch a child. And It would also involve hearings and court dates in the family courts which have not happend. So unless someone has proof of cps involvement besided hearsay and rumors ...............leave the kids out of grown up bickering.
There is no proof. It’s all conjecture and rumor by these hate mongers.
CPS was not involved. That came from Kris’ own mouth.
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by: Jo Roark on March 15, 2009 - 07:22 PM | Comment # 1663
I believe the only thing all of us hate is animal abuse. Its a very touchy subject with many people and rightly so. There are so many things about this that makes no sense. Why would all of these people conspire against her? Is it that they all want her dogs? For what purpose? And why haven’t they returned all of her dogs and her ponies to her if she is innocent? Why were they going to return 28 dogs and now its only 21? And why is someone all the way from Canada that really has no way of knowing what the condition of her kennels or her dogs are defending her?
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by: gremlin on March 15, 2009 - 08:23 PM | Comment # 1665
One of you is even masquarding as Kris’ Mom. How sad
Cyn-
I wasn’t MASQUARDING as her mom, I was asked to post in behalf of her mom because she doesn’t have a computer. The only computer she ever had was her sons computer who was killed and it went to our children. I even called Kris to tell her. Please don’t drag us into this crap. I have used my name on every post also just fyi.CATHE - (EX-SISTER-IN-LAW - bold incase you couldn’t read it)
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by: Crystal Rose on March 15, 2009 - 08:39 PM | Comment # 1666
When is it ok to post someones address on line? When is it ok to drive by there house and stop and point? When is it ok to call someones home and harass them? When is it ok to go to someones place of business and ask questions about them and try to get them fired? Well this is beeing done to Kris and yall out there know who you are.
Weather or not she did something wrong is up to the laws and courts. She and her children should be able to feel safe in there own home, in their own yards, school, work even out on an errand.
This is a good example of “small town justice”. Lets gosip, point fingers, make up stuff and hopefully “run them out of town”.
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by: Crystal Rose on March 15, 2009 - 08:53 PM | Comment # 1668
Only thing that dosen’t make sense to me is why is every on out on a witch hunt after Kris when you can’t drive more than 10 miles in any direction in skagit with out driving by some type of breeder.
Why Isn’t any one after them? Say you dont know who they are? BS open any news paper any day of the week and they have dogs listed for sale.
Why is it the county dosnt seize dogs with out a rescue on line to take the animals? Would explain why the cute fluffy adoptable dogs were taken but why the county thought it was cost would prohibitive for them to seize the large dogs of another breeder.
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by: Crystal Rose on March 15, 2009 - 09:00 PM | Comment # 1669
Why wasn’t there a witch hunt for this breeders blood, he was charged with abuse, he not only neglected dogs, but cats and horses as well. How come his animals were not taken?
http://www.goskagit.com/home/article/kennels_operator_charged_with_abuse/
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by: Jo Roark on March 15, 2009 - 09:34 PM | Comment # 1673
Maybe the county has recently decided to do something about the problems here in Skagit County. There is probably a limit on how many they can seize at one time due to lack of places to put these dogs. They have seized almost 500 dogs since January, they had to start somewhere and I hope they continue to confiscate animals that are not being properly taken care of.
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by: Lee_USA on March 15, 2009 - 09:45 PM | Comment # 1674
And NOW because of organizations like HSUS/SPCA/PETA I won’t do rescue anymore, for the last two years.
They all have interferred in your business?
I almost lost every animal I own because of a rescue horse I had that was injured and emaciated. I have Vet papers to show he had been examined. He had good quality hay, sweet feed, vitamins, fresh water, green pasture, shelter etc and I STILL had to fight our local ACO. She wrote me up because one of my dogs had knocked her water bowl over and had no water
.
Oh, the fact is your local Animal Control Officer was a zealot but you now smear everyone with the same broad brush. Rather a knee-jerk reaction in my opinion.
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by: Crystal Rose on March 15, 2009 - 09:53 PM | Comment # 1676
well just in the sunburg dogs they seized more than were at Cultis mountian - beeep wrong answer. October 2008 would have come before January 2009 ------------beep wrong answer
Only diference would be the size of the animals and due to public interest the adoptability of those animals.
So it is ok for dogs to die from neglect tumors and cancer? And the owner of that kennel WAS charged with neglect.
How come all the mouths on here are not protesting his breeding operation wich is still running and pumping out puppies?
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by: Jo Roark on March 15, 2009 - 10:41 PM | Comment # 1678
If it would have been up to me he would have had his animals taken away.
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by: Jo Roark on March 15, 2009 - 11:02 PM | Comment # 1679
When did I say it was ok for an animal to die of neglect from cancerous tumors? Dogs as well as people refuse to eat after a certain point with cancer, I know this because 3 of my family members died of cancer so the emaciation was not due from lack of food. He should have taken her to the vet right after she was returned to him. The article did not state that his dogs were living in crates in their own filth, it also did not state that there were dogs in crates for up to 18 hours a day which is very upsetting.
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The article did state that the rest of the dogs did have food and seemed to be ok.
As it stands at this point no one knows what will happen with Kris and her dogs. No one knows if she is going to be charged or not or if she will get the rest of her dogs and ponies back or not. We will just have to wait and see.
by: Crystal Rose on March 15, 2009 - 11:54 PM | Comment # 1680
read the rest of the story where it states
“Animal control officers documented several other unfavorable conditions on Sept. 26 at the kennel, which houses 127 dogs, 74 cats and 33 horses. Many of the dogs at the kennel had no water or had only dirty water available, Diaz said.”
“Some of the kennels had barbed wire strung along the top so that when the dogs jumped up their unprotected paws would strike the barbs.”
“The cats were housed in a laundry room with no ventilation and some had wheezing and coughing consistent with upper respiratory infections, Diaz said. Several cats had no access to water. A horse was found to be dangerously underweight. According to Diaz’s report, the horse’s ribs were visible. A second horse had a visibly untreated wound to her left hind leg.”
So these are acceptable conditions for animals? I guess cats confined to cages in an unventilated room is ok. The use of barbed wire is ok. Taking sick animals you don’t want to care for out to be “dispatched” or shot is ok. The dogs are locked up in a pens out side with there only protection from the elements a cramped dog house is ok. The floors of the pens being nothing more then dirt, no grass no shavings just dirt and mud. It’s ok that puppies purchased from him had parasites, giardia and staff infections. Its ok to let a dog suffer for days laying in the dirt - there was more than one, there wasn’t a story on the second dog that was put down that had a tumor on his spine and blown ear drums from massive ear infections. I don’t see any where in the story where they checked the dogs teeth for dental issues, I wonder why?
Come on all you animal rights warriors, where was your voice when it came to these dogs and this case?
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by: DeerHunterMom on March 16, 2009 - 01:27 AM | Comment # 1681
Wow, all of you have been at this all day and night! And I thought I went to bed late! Have a nice time typing away at each other...this is very entertaining anyways! Thanks. To bad its an unthinkable horrible subject to talk about or it could be funny even. Let us all pray for every abused and neglected animal and child out there… wish they ALL could be saved in this life.
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by: Jo Roark on March 16, 2009 - 08:45 AM | Comment # 1688
As I said before, they should have been taken away from him.
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by: CynLajoie on March 16, 2009 - 10:07 AM | Comment # 1691
Gremlin. I know who you are. Kris told me before the comment showed up. I was talking about someone who posted previously, with intimate details about a certain situation.
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by: CynLajoie on March 16, 2009 - 10:12 AM | Comment # 1692
Jo Roark says
it also did not state that there were dogs in crates for up to 18 hours a day which is very upsetting.
THIS is what IM talking about.
How do YOU know this ?
How did ACO ?
Did they sit and peek in Kris window for a 24 hour period to verify this ?
NO. They went to Kris house when she was at work and heard the dogs whining but not coming to the door so Emialy Diaz “assumed” the dogs were crated and thus had the warrant issued.
ADD to that a LOCKED GATE with a NO TRESPASSING sign.....hmmmm
And you wonder why the Courts are now backing off and returning dogs.
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by: CynLajoie on March 16, 2009 - 10:17 AM | Comment # 1693
And to the issue of why I despise HSUS/PETA/ etc.
They lie, steal money from naive people, steal animals and dont’ give a darn thing back to the ANIMALS which is what they are supposed to do.
Go on youtube. See the seizure videos. I dare you.
It’s sickening what is being done.
Individual Humane Societies are totally DIFFERENT. Watch Animal Cops. THEY know how to do it. Houston SPCA, PA SPCA, NY SPCA etc. THEY are in it for the animals.
HSUS is NOT !!
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by: CynLajoie on March 16, 2009 - 10:32 AM | Comment # 1694
http://www.ncraoa.com/articles/AR/HSUS_ItsNotAboutAnimalShelters-Oliver.pdf
Read it and maybe then you’ll understand !!
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by: CynLajoie on March 16, 2009 - 11:03 AM | Comment # 1698
Do not let the name fool you...the Humane Society of the United States does NOT own, manage, operate, or support ANY local humane societies. Do you know where and to whom your donations are going? Do you think you have been helping the millions of homeless pets you care so much about? The sad truth is if you donate to HSUS you are only fueling a wealthy pro-vegan and politically motivated animal-rights group. The animals you care about never get the care they desperately need. Please donate to your LOCAL Humane Society.
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by: momma Jan on March 16, 2009 - 11:18 AM | Comment # 1699
just wrote a $500.00 check to the HSUS !!! they lobby for laws to help downer cows(slaughter houses can NO LONGER use a fork lift to get a poor cow that can’t walk into the slaughter area,etc.)—they stop abuse at the “slaughter house” --they were intrical in the stopping of horse slaughter houses in the USA --all horse meat is sent mostly to the orient because horse meat is not eaten in the US but we were cruely supplying our horses to countries that treat animals HORRIFIC(China especially) !! NOW the CREEPS that profit from a horse’s misery try to ship the horses out of the country and the conditions they are shipped out of the country are accurately described in one of your earlier comments, CYN) they have done much to stop dog fighting laws--they are working on stopping the senseless baby seal clubbing--I could go on and ON --they work tirelessly to improve the lives of our animals --yes, we do kill bugs on our windshields when we drive,we do eliminate fleas, we do fish, but let’s be smart and not focus on the extreme examples --life isn’t fair but our animals depend on US to take care of them NOT ABUSE them-
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by: momma Jan on March 16, 2009 - 11:21 AM | Comment # 1700
OH --forgot to add to my last comment --I wrote “In honor of CynLajoie” at the bottom of my check--thanks for the inspiration CYN
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by: CynLajoie on March 16, 2009 - 11:33 AM | Comment # 1701
HSUS is against hunting, fishing, caged chickens, caged rabbits, cattle feedlots, chickens being forced to lay large eggs and the list goes on and on.
MOST are under the delusion that they ARE shelters, they run shelters.
So you just keep sending your money momma jan but remember don’t complain when you’re paying $15 for a dozen eggs.
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by: CynLajoie on March 16, 2009 - 11:36 AM | Comment # 1702
Im just glad that SPCA up here in Canada seems to have a bit more of a brain the HSUS. They pass stupid laws then resind them.
They did the only free range chickens in British Columbia last year then resinded it when the chicken producers explained the domino affect to them.
Free range chickens eat feces.
Free range chickens eat their own eggs and others eggs.
Free range chickens break eggs.
Free range chickens get alot more fecal staining.Bottom line..........less eggs, more cost...... = the cost being put on to the consumer. And we all know how consumers feel about the bottom line.
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by: protectanimals on March 16, 2009 - 12:41 PM | Comment # 1704
Wow english eludes you doesn’t it. The body scale is
1 - near death, walking skeleton.
2 - emaciated
3 - thin
4 - lean
5 - adequate body fat.
When Dr Brown used the word “emaciated” he did NOT give a number to go with it so by definition, it was “his opinion” and his choice to use the word emaciated. I’ve emailed him and asked him what number. NO reply. Surprise surprise.If you had read the intake reports, you’d know that there were several dogs with a body condition of 1 on a scale of 1 to 5. The vets assigned the body condition numbers.
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by: protectanimals on March 16, 2009 - 12:43 PM | Comment # 1705
Hypothetical situation. If I am driving down the road and I get pulled over and arrested because the Police “think” I am someone else. I am detained, my car is impounded. After 24 hours they release me. You think Im paying the impound fees on my car ? Who do you think is responsible for my car being impounded in the first place ?
Actually, the owner is responsible for all impound fees regardless of outcome of trial IF the impound was done properly/legally.
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by: protectanimals on March 16, 2009 - 01:10 PM | Comment # 1706
What kind of a professional goes into Court for a animal seizure case based on body condition and has NO photos of the “emaciated” dogs ?
The hearing that has happened (that took 3 days in court) was only the custody dispute. It was not to prove that Kris was or was not guilty of abuse or neglect. It was merely for Kris to prove that if the court remanded the dogs to her care *during the criminal hearings, if any*, they wouldn’t be subjected to future neglect.
Kris had the burden of proof as petitioner and according to the judge, she did not meet that burden. She did not introduce evidence of the reported messy conditions, etc. being cleaned up. She did not introduce evidence that she would obtain vaterinary care.
The judge was very clear that Kris didn’t meet her burden of proof for any of the animals - but he followed that up by stating that due to the search warrant issue, the barn dogs shouldn’t have been seized and regardless of the failure to prove they would not be subject to future neglect, they must be returned.
Charges were just signed Friday about the mini horse and pinto pony that were seized during the raid - and investigation is reportedly ongoing into the dogs.
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by: protectanimals on March 16, 2009 - 01:12 PM | Comment # 1707
CPS was not involved. That came from Kris’ own mouth
Wow, there’s a trustworthy source. How about the others at the raid who saw the CPS workers there?
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by: Jo Roark on March 16, 2009 - 02:17 PM | Comment # 1711
Kennel owner says she is a ‘reputable dog breeder’ is the article that talked about testimony that the dogs were in the crates 18 hours a day.
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by: CynLajoie on March 16, 2009 - 02:28 PM | Comment # 1712
protectanimals. I never said CPS wasn’t called. Im sure ACO called them. I said they weren’t involved as IN checked it out and left. Period.
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by: CynLajoie on March 16, 2009 - 02:30 PM | Comment # 1713
Jo Jo Jo.....so sad how you twist things. Kris never stated the dogs were crated 18 hours a day. Emily Diaz (ACO) did. Kris stated the dogs were let out, in stages which if you had a brain in your head you would understand. You don’t let 12 dogs run loose at the same time.
As well, back to MY question. How did ACO know this ??
Did she peek in the window for 24 hours to come to her findings ?
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by: margatuti on March 16, 2009 - 03:37 PM | Comment # 1714
Thank you “protectanimals”—you saved me some typing—re custody hearing vs criminal proceedings.
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by: lovinskagit on March 16, 2009 - 04:31 PM | Comment # 1722
Charges were just signed Friday about the mini horse and pinto pony that were seized during the raid - and investigation is reportedly ongoing into the dogs.
Where did it show that information about charges being signed on Friday?
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by: LivinUpriver on March 16, 2009 - 04:57 PM | Comment # 1724
if you had a brain in your head you would understand. You don’t let 12 dogs run loose at the same time.
And if you had a heart for dogs (as you want us to believe you do), you would realize that having dogs crated as long as it appears Ms. Finch did every day, seven days a week is just wrong, wrong, wrong.
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by: wipeoutpuppymills on March 16, 2009 - 07:03 PM | Comment # 1728
They have seized almost 500 dogs since January, they had to start somewhere and I hope they continue to confiscate animals that are not being properly taken care of.
I hope they continue too, Jo. No animal should ever be allowed to suffer from abuse and neglect not for one minute. Thank goodness for people like Officer Diaz. It is a tough job to see animals that are starved or dying in a so-called breeders care. Kris should be worried about caring for her children, not getting dogs back that don’t belong in her care because she has abused the privilege.
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by: protectanimals on March 16, 2009 - 07:05 PM | Comment # 1729
Where did it show that information about charges being signed on Friday?
Not seen it reported, but I know the ACO signed the affadavit Friday on the mini horse and pony...waiting to see the official charges.
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by: protectanimals on March 16, 2009 - 07:18 PM | Comment # 1730
I thought 28 dogs were going to be returned to her, why has the number changed to 21
Advanced Canadian math from the court CD she bought…
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by: Bull Dog on March 16, 2009 - 07:51 PM | Comment # 1733
Momma Jan- If you think that I have been on a tirade, you ain’t seen nothing yet. You people suck
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by: Crystal Rose on March 16, 2009 - 08:15 PM | Comment # 1734
Where is the proof besides hearsay that the dogs were caged for 18 hours a day 7 days a week? How would animal control know this unless they peeped in her window 24 hours a day 7 days a week?
And why do certain “people” keep bringing up the children every chance they get? The children can’t even go out side and be children at this point with all the gawkers and finger pointers driving by the house. And y’all know who you are. When are you going to start dragging out your dirty laundry and start wearing sheets.
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by: Crystal Rose on March 16, 2009 - 08:17 PM | Comment # 1736
Oh ya - I forgot I’m seeing a big double standard goign on - lets string one breeder up and call them names while other breeders get away with treating there animals worse.
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by: Jo Roark on March 16, 2009 - 09:37 PM | Comment # 1741
Jo Jo Jo.....so sad how you twist things. Kris never stated the dogs were crated 18 hours a day. Emily Diaz (ACO) did. Kris stated the dogs were let out, in stages which if you had a brain in your head you would understand. You don’t let 12 dogs run loose at the same time.
As well, back to MY question. How did ACO know this ??
Did she peek in the window for 24 hours to come to her findings ?
No need to be rude
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by: Jo Roark on March 16, 2009 - 09:40 PM | Comment # 1742
Momma Jan- If you think that I have been on a tirade, you ain’t seen nothing yet. You people suck
I am still waiting to hear the real truth from you, you seemed to just disappeared the last time I asked..
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by: bkindtok9s on March 17, 2009 - 09:13 AM | Comment # 1756
So I’ve been watching this post for awhile and am wondering this question.Where did Kris come up with all these dogs? A lot of them are under a year? Did she buy them with all the money she has? Or how about the rumor that she has puppies in Oregon??? Is that why she has puppies advertized on her car and web site
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by: Lee_USA on March 17, 2009 - 09:20 AM | Comment # 1757
The children can’t even go out side and be children at this point with all the gawkers and finger pointers driving by the house. And y’all know who you are.
And you know this to be true? How?
I forgot I’m seeing a big double standard going on - lets string one breeder up and call them names while other breeders get away with treating there animals worse.
Got an example? Any example at all?
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by: Bull Dog on March 17, 2009 - 09:30 AM | Comment # 1759
Jo- Have you ever heard of a gag order? If you haven’t, it is keep your mouth shut until the right time. 1 week and 1 day ago the judge ordered that Kris’s dogs from the shop be returned to her. Guess what, they still haven’t been. And as far a Beckett or any of the other dogs are concerned nobody knows where there at. Good Paperwork from the volunteers and county!!!!!!!!
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by: Crystal Rose on March 17, 2009 - 09:30 AM | Comment # 1760
Because unlike most people on here I have gone out of my way to talk with Kris. My parents alawys said there was 3 sides to a story - yours, theirs and the truth.
When the Cultis Mountian “breeder” was busted last October only one of his dogs was taked.... oops make that he voluntarily released custody of the dog. And there wasn’t such an out cry to shut him down. He is still breeding and selling dogs and cats. Even after beeing charged with abuse.
http://www.goskagit.com/home/article/kennels_operator_charged_with_abuse/
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by: Bull Dog on March 17, 2009 - 09:44 AM | Comment # 1762
And to everyone else KEEP THE KIDS OUT OF THIS!!!!!!!!!!!!!! YOU HAVE NO RIGHT TO SAY ANYTHING ABOUT KRIS’S KIDS.
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by: wipeoutpuppymills on March 17, 2009 - 09:48 AM | Comment # 1763
I am still waiting to hear the real truth from you, you seemed to just disappeared the last time I asked..
I agree with you Jo. I haven’t gotten one answer, because the guilty aren’t going to answer. By the way people, Jo is exactly who she says she is, and Kris knows her, so if she tells you differently she is just lying once more. I have my suspicions that one of you among us is Kris, or you are being spoon fed all of this misinformation by her. Forget breeding Kris, your reputation is DONE, you or your friends can’t repair it. I have heard from several that you are very persuasive, and you tell people what you think they want to hear depending on the situation. I know Pat Kapp, and she is a perfect example of how you have completely betrayed someone. Pat Kapp is the breeder and co/owner of Beckett. Sad to think no one on this list has come forward about any of the Aussies. Were all 28 bred by Kris?
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by: Lee_USA on March 17, 2009 - 09:49 AM | Comment # 1764
Where did Kris come up with all these dogs? A lot of them are under a year? Did she buy them with all the money she has? Or how about the rumor that she has puppies in Oregon??? Is that why she has puppies advertized on her car and web site
Bear in mind the website is old and out of date. And rumors aren’t worth repeating here if you don’t have facts, there’s enough HYSTERIA going already.
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by: wipeoutpuppymills on March 17, 2009 - 09:50 AM | Comment # 1765
I thought 28 dogs were going to be returned to her, why has the number changed to 21
What is the correct number? Did some die? How many exactly did Kris originally have? Any of you know?
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by: Lee_USA on March 17, 2009 - 10:04 AM | Comment # 1766
When the Cultis Mountian “breeder” was busted last October only one of his dogs was taked.... oops make that he voluntarily released custody of the dog. And there wasn’t such an out cry to shut him down. He is still breeding and selling dogs and cats. Even after beeing charged with abuse.
You have few facts but that doesn’t curtail you one little bit.
Based on the results, the animal control officers decided to pursue second-degree animal cruelty charges against Adams.
If convicted, Adams could serve up to 90 days in Skagit County Jail and up to two years of probation. During that time, conditions could be set limiting the types of animals Adams could own or requirements could be made to ensure the proper care of any animals in his possession, according to Skagit County Prosecuting Attorney Rich Weyrich
Charged yes, but there hasn’t been a trial yet. And if you didn’t hear the public outcry...you weren’t listening.
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