richiem999, I read the article you supplied.  You have chosen to give us a biased EDITORIAL piece as opposed to the actual NEWS piece Irtnog supplied.  Needless to say, I am not impressed.  You still haven’t answered my VERY SIMPLE questions, and I’m wondering if the reason why is that you don’t have the answers or if it is that you know the answers don’t support your position.  Either way, you’re not doing very well at supporting your side of the argument here.  Focus, richiem999.  FOCUS.

Lies, richiem999. LIES. Rare to nonexistent are the professionals who go from anti- to pro-fluoridation. However, the number of doctors and dentists who are turning against fluoridation is snowballing!

Seems like someone can’t answer the question shrug has been asking.  A question that should have a well known answer.

But many people don’t know where the tons of fluoride that Skagit’s PUD may be forced to contaminate our water supply comes from.

Chemical fertilizer waste.

Now you know.

A 2000 study conducted by the University of York, UK, examined 30 STUDIES concluding that “the evidence about reducing inequalities in dental health was of poor quality, contradictory and unreliable”.

The precautionary principle should be applied to fluoridation --

There are other ways of delivering fluoride besides the water supply;

Fluoride does not need to be swallowed to prevent tooth decay;

Tooth decay has dropped at the same rate in countries with, and without, water fluoridation;

People are now receiving fluoride from many other sources besides the water supply;

Studies indicate fluoride’s potential to cause a wide range of adverse, systemic effects

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_fluoridation_controversy

Wikipedia is no more an authoritative source than the man in the moon—anyone can get on it and write biased junk.  And frankly, I’ll take the opinion of the American Cancer Society, the World Health Organization, the American Medical Association, thousands of scientists and doctors, and the evidence from 180 million people who consume fluoridated water WITHOUT negative health impacts over the University of York any day.  And “fertilizer waste” is a red herring - fluoride is naturally occurring.  It passes stringent quality standards before it is used.

Wow, you forgot to include the United Nations in your list of uber-credible organizations (please note dripping sarcasm).

richiem999
I feel left out, where’s my answer?
refer to page 2

And the fluoride containing compound that is injected into the drinking water is NOT Natural occurring and could you please show me your sources of the “stringent quality standards” documentation.

Do yourself a favor and do a web search for Hydrofluorosilicic acid
I really like the recommended uses for the product listed on this MSDS sheet on pages 6 and 7
http://www.pelchem.com/pdf/H2SiF6-MSDS.pdf

this whole argument reminds me of the old “dihydrogen monoxide” urban legend (it’s the leading cause of drowning and acid rain!).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dihydrogen_monoxide_hoax

people don’t like fluoride because it has a scary-sounding chemical name, but little scientific research supports their fear.  just the usual tinfoil-hat “research” that we usually see from young earth creationists or moon landing deniers. 

adding fluoride to our water replaces a natural occurring mineral salt that was present during our evolution, period.

please pursue a more worthy goal, like improving the level of science education in skagit county schools.

You forgot to reload, LaCanner. Dihydrogen monoxide… tinfoil hats… young earth… moon hoax… I do believe you left out Dr. Strangelove. The scripted material never changes. Anyway, both you and richiem999 have been caught in another lie. Your contention that the chemical makeup of compounds used in water fluoridation is somehow equivalent to naturally occurring *calcium* fluoride is flat out false. Furthermore, what people are forced to drink is commercial grade, not pharmaceutical in quality. Science education in Skagit County schools can best be served by keeping you two away from them. Why don’t you go read what a U of W cardiac surgeon and Professor of Surgery has to say about fluoridation? See http://www.lewrockwell.com/miller/miller17.html

@Don Johnson

let’s see some peer reviewed research by Dr. Miller rather than some article he wrote for that anti-semite newsletter-writing ron paul-loving nutjob, lew rockwell.  bring us some science, NOT opinion, especially not the opinion of a man whose credibility is so laughably poor on this issue.

with rockwell involved, i’m surprised he isn’t blaming the “international bankers” for fluoride. /smirk

Don: 

That is absolutely the best treatise on the fluoride issue I’ve yet to read.

I do believe that LaCanner has his nose in the air, Irtnog! Why don’t you go tell Dr. Miller what you think of him yourself, hotshot? Since most of what he wrote probably sailed right over your head, I’m sure that he would love to hear from you. Actually, I already posted a short-list of peer-reviewed publications from noted experts on fluoride/thyroid interaction. Go do a search. As for source material, how ’bout if you go light on the endorsements from lobbyist groups such as the ADA, WHO, the CDC, etc., and show us some science that hasn’t been bought and paid for? Produce *double-blinded* studies that prove fluoridation does any good. See what Dr. Bill Osmunson has to say on the subject… http://youtube.com/watch?v=_Ys9q1cvKGk

I have to admit I’m not strongly for or against the flouride issue, so can someone help refresh my memory on whether or not flouride in the water was presented to the voters a couple of years ago.  Secondly, as I stated I have no strong opinion either way, but for Mr. Johnson to accuse another poster of ridiculing is the text book kettle calling the pot black. Richie simply came on with a differing view and Mr. Johnson jumped down his throat.  Where’s the tolerance?? Cmon!!  Then again this has been interesting read cause there’s some strange bed fellows...Shrug & Irtnog..who’d a thought you two would agree on something!!  There is hope!

Wow so many thoughts on such a simple thing such as flouride in the water .. Why do you folks get so worried about it the Skagit Valley Herald is in favor of it and so are so many Drs. and Dentists and you all know they are never wrong. 
Just like in the past if you go and read magazines from the 50s you will see many Drs recomending that you only smoke menthol cigarettes as they are better for you then the plain ones.

richiem,
You are absolutely and unquestionably wrong. I have never seen anyone so clueless on the subject of fluoridation as you are. Even the AMA won’t guarantee its safely, Mr. Munks in the Skagit Valley Herald said he cannot guarantee its safety. The ADA said babies should not have it, do you think they said this because it won’t hurt them? There is not one organization or any individual that will guarantee the safely of the poison called fluoride, NOT ONE! Why do you think that is? Fluoride is a drug according to the FDA. I don’t take drugs of any kind because of the side effects. Both my grandson and my grandniece have brown streaks across their teeth from fluoride poisoning. Get an education!

wildviking,
Doctors and Dentists that push fluoridation are all about corporate giving. We wanted a debate, they hid. We wanted to ask them questions, they ran.
Its ok though, at the public meeting with the PUD commissioners and the County Commissioners we will finally have our questions answered after four long years..

watchdog,
Fluoridation was put to a vote and it came out 52/48 but some people outside of the PUD district were allowed to vote so the true outcome of the vote was 51/49. For those of you that have not really educated yourselves on the subject I strongly suggest you do, fluoride is a poison. Some of us have been fighting fluoridation for four years now. I have my own business but when I started educating myself on the subject I knew I had to make time to fight it.

richiem stated that the fluoride that is put in our water is the naturally occuring type, its isn’t. At a PUD meeting I asked the commissioners if the fluoride added to the water was naturally occuring and they said it wasn’t because there simply isn’t enough of it to do the job. The fluoride we get is the garbage left over from the phosphate fertilizer companies and that is the honest truth.

“people don’t like fluoride because it has a scary-sounding chemical name, but little scientific research supports their fear”

Well that simplifies it, doesn’t it.  People are so stupid they just become hysterical from hearing names that sound ‘chemically’.

Missed by a mile.  People don’t like having their water messed with for no good reason.  They don’t like being medicated against their will.  And they don’t like having to pay for
it to boot.

There are many studies that do show serious effects from the ingestion of fluoride.  Drinking chemical waste products does cause some health issues. 

But the glossy ads and the millions of $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ from those promoting fluoride forget to mention not all fluorides are alike.  The stuff in toothpaste is not the stuff the Skagit Commissioners want to dump into our water.

Do some research.

@Lee_USA

you’ve convinced me.  i am so appalled now that i wish to fight all the other chemical additives in our water supply. 

ozone, a major component of urban smog, should go!  it can KILL!

chlorination?  sure it’s saved millions of lives by preventing disease, but it can KILL! don’t you know it was used as a chemical weapon by both nazis and iraqi terrorists!  it must go! 

carbon filtration?  it’s not natural, so it can’t be good for you.  it looks like dirt!  it must go! 

ultra violet light disinfection?  UV rays causes skin cancer!  it must go!

even water itself should go!  water toxicity is a major problem during hot weather.  it can KILL!

please Lee_USA, join my crusade!

Doctors and Dentists that promote fluoride are taught to do so without question. They will push it even if it means putting the community as risk. They are taught that corporate giving comes first and foremost. If people read “Grantmakers in Health” it is spelled out. The doctors and dentists that choose to have a mind of their own and question the ethics of fluoridation are the ones that are fighting it.

watch dog, I have no tolerance for anyone who advocates something that will cause my health problems to worsen. I was put into retirement as the result of undiagnosed endocrine system failure. I cannot filter enough water with which to bathe, which means I will have to stay on top of my condition or risk returning to near fulltime bed rest. It angers me to think of all the people who will fall ill and not know why because they are being “cared” for by medical doctors who cannot even distinguish between *symptoms* of “depression” and a low thyroid *primary condition*. Don’t give me that garbage about me picking on richiem999, either. He has not come on with simple differing views, as you suggest. What he has presented are scripted worn out dogma and flat out falsehoods.

(continued from above) If you have been reading as much as you claim, you have witnessed others and me turn him back with verifiable documentation. The most he has delivered are *endorsements* from lobbyist groups who masquerade as champions of science. Also, let’s be honest about the outcome of Prop 2 in Nov of ’06. The County Auditor’s web site shows that the “yes” vote was 52.07%. Recently, the SVH has inched it up to 53%. Because of the *razor-thin* margin of victory, that is the introduction of a significant error. Jo Roark is correct in pointing out the irregularities in ballot distribution. When factored out, the edge was reduced to a 1% success. Had all PUD ratepayers received ballots, the outcome could have easily gone the other way, (continued below)

in which case Munks and Dahlstedt would have still voted to fluoridate, citing that Prop 2 was simply an *advisory* issue. If my suspicion is correct, those two are trying to consummate some back-door deal established with former WDSF CEO Tracy Garland and referenced in her speech to the Grantmakers In Health organization in Nov 2005 (see http://www.skagitcleanwater.org/fluoride-101/gih-tracy-garland.html ). A 1 to 2 point margin is no mandate by any stretch of one’s imagination. They are forgetting that the United States is not a democracy, where a simple majority decides what’s best for everyone. I know from talking with Dalhstedt that he hasn’t made the slightest effort to investigate his “medical anomalies” between fluoridated Anacortes and the rest of Skagit County.

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